How would a coup have gone down in 1970s/80s Britain?
- Thread starter kspence92
- Start date
First of all, what are the pressures leading up to the coup? Are they economic? Social? Weakness in foreign policy? Is there foreign aid to the junta?
They would probably try to get the Royals on their side, and if that failed, framing the legitimate government for their deaths. (they might install the most flexible royal family member--no idea who this would be)
There would be some police who supported them, but I can't say if these would be in the majority.
What of dissension in the ranks? Your average British soldier may not like overthrowing his government, although if the pressures are bad enough, a majority could be persuaded they are doing the right thing. (I would expect loyalty purges if the coup leaders manage to set up a government lasting longer than a few months)
They would probably try to get the Royals on their side, and if that failed, framing the legitimate government for their deaths. (they might install the most flexible royal family member--no idea who this would be)
There would be some police who supported them, but I can't say if these would be in the majority.
What of dissension in the ranks? Your average British soldier may not like overthrowing his government, although if the pressures are bad enough, a majority could be persuaded they are doing the right thing. (I would expect loyalty purges if the coup leaders manage to set up a government lasting longer than a few months)
CthulhuFhtagn
Banned
Well, first, roughly half of the British Armed Forces will flat out refuse to join the coup. The American troops stationed in Britain will stick with the loyalists. French troops land in Britain within a couple days. The coup is put down quickly and brutally. The US shuts down the British nuclear weapons program. The End.
It's not as far fetched as one might think, particularly in 1975 there were some pretty nasty right wing organisations around and the mid seventies had a feeling of the country becoming ungovernable. If you listen to the Tom Robinson Band's first album Power in the Darkness lots of imagined coup scenario's in there, it was v popular at the time so a lot of subliminal messages.
Chris Mullin envisages how a genuinely socialist labour government might fare in his work "a very British Coup" though of course there aren't soldiers on the streets as such.
Of course a coup does not have to be right wing, it just has to be a seizure of power by semi legitimate means, on that description Ken Livingstones ousting of the then GLC leader Andrew McIntosh one day after the GLC elections in 1981 did have the feel of a coup, Livingstone used a procedural tactic insisting on a vote straight after the election thereby ousting the more moderate McIntosh.
Chris Mullin envisages how a genuinely socialist labour government might fare in his work "a very British Coup" though of course there aren't soldiers on the streets as such.
Of course a coup does not have to be right wing, it just has to be a seizure of power by semi legitimate means, on that description Ken Livingstones ousting of the then GLC leader Andrew McIntosh one day after the GLC elections in 1981 did have the feel of a coup, Livingstone used a procedural tactic insisting on a vote straight after the election thereby ousting the more moderate McIntosh.
It's very hard to see the armed forces going against the wishes of the Royal Family - all soldiers swear an oath of allegiance "Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, her Heirs and Successors", and there are roughly a brigade of troops attached to the royal household in London at all times. There is currently a company of Foot Guards based ~200m from Buckingham Palace (probably more back in the 1970s/80s), and the HCMR are 3/4 of a mile away at Hyde Park (Knightsbridge) Barracks.
It's very hard to see any coup suborning the Guards or Household Cavalry (if only because half of the senior officers are somehow related to HMTQ
).
There are a couple of routes that almost qualify as coups though:
1) The Ken Livingstone route already mentioned - that was also used in The Fourth Protocol. Should such a government take office and decide to abolish the monarchy, the Queen would be faced with the choice of potential civil war or permitting a parliamentary dictatorship to take office.
2) The Queen deciding that she doesn't like a particular government, dismissing it and appointing a new one. There isn't anything in the constitution outright prohibiting her from doing so, just the fact that she might get abolished if she does so without the support of the populace. This has effectively happened under the same system (Australia, 1975) so is not inconceivable in the UK - indeed, the current Coalition seems to have come about under prompting from various courtiers telling the politicians to come up with a government before you force the Queen to appoint one.
It's very hard to see any coup suborning the Guards or Household Cavalry (if only because half of the senior officers are somehow related to HMTQ
).There are a couple of routes that almost qualify as coups though:
1) The Ken Livingstone route already mentioned - that was also used in The Fourth Protocol. Should such a government take office and decide to abolish the monarchy, the Queen would be faced with the choice of potential civil war or permitting a parliamentary dictatorship to take office.
2) The Queen deciding that she doesn't like a particular government, dismissing it and appointing a new one. There isn't anything in the constitution outright prohibiting her from doing so, just the fact that she might get abolished if she does so without the support of the populace. This has effectively happened under the same system (Australia, 1975) so is not inconceivable in the UK - indeed, the current Coalition seems to have come about under prompting from various courtiers telling the politicians to come up with a government before you force the Queen to appoint one.
I could imagine the coup leaders maintaining loyalty to the Queen, claiming they were overthrowing a disloyal parliament. As other posters have indicated there would be all kinds of protests, objections and probably dissention in the ranks. I think the Queen would dissaprove of such a disregard for legal procedures. If succesful the coup leaders would probably get a very frosty reception at the Palace.
As bad as things were in the mid 1970's, I really cannot see a coup or any kind of military intervention taking place unless there was a complete breakdown of law and order or some kind of serious crisis. In those circumstances it may well have popular support but if its just a few reactionaries trying to prevent a Labour government coming in then it will fail miserably.
I think a military coup in the UK is ASB. There were one or two dingbats on the far right who talked about it in the 70s when Wilson was PM - but that's about it.
It's reported that Wilson feared a coup, but it's likely that his paranoia was an early sign of Alzheimer's rather than a genuine concern.
It's reported that Wilson feared a coup, but it's likely that his paranoia was an early sign of Alzheimer's rather than a genuine concern.
If there was a run of the mill military coup against Wilson by senior army officers, what would it look like? Would troops seize Heathrow Airport, the Ministry of Defence , the Cabinet Office and surround Downing Street and demand he come out and surrender? Or would there just be battles in the streets between soldiers loyal to the government and the coup plotters?
I think it would unravel in a matter of hours. You could just about imagine a senior officer ordering troops to take Heathrow or maybe seal off the Houses of Parliament - but when it shown to be the act of a handful of fanatics, it would turn to dust.
God damn it Meadow. Fine I'll read your timeline that I've never quite got round to reading but if I forget to do my seminar reading because you've drawn me down another rabbit hole I'm blaming you...and Harold Wilson.
You could make that case if it was just Wilson, but most of the front benches of both parties appeared to believe some sort of coup was on the cards.
There were a lot of military dingbats talking the need for it in gentlemens' clubs, there were putative right-wing militias, left-wing terrorist cells, TV celebrities telling Britain it needed a dose of good old-fashioned discipline, spies who sincerely believed the Prime Minister was a KGB agent, even a leader of the Opposition who sincerely believed that for a time as well (tell me that paranoia was an early sign of Alzheimers). The possibility of a coup was openly speculated about in national newspapers and was the topic of dozens, even hundreds of novels bought for bedside reading. From the perspective of now the idea of a coup looks ASB, but from the perspective of then it's ASB that it didn't eventually happen.
Things that could have led to a coup in the seventies
1 Labour winning late 70's general election followed by Callaghan being ousted by a Livingstone style coup.
2 Further escalation of violence in N. Ireland spilling over to the mainland
3 A greater degree of union disruption than occurred in the winter of 78/79, possibly involving the miners or a degree of general strike action. (remember the firefighters were on strike for a significant length of time in the late 70's)
4 Significant anti-police demonstrations leading to more deaths of demonstrators, ( e.g. Blair Peach) and escalating public disorder.
5 Greater political action around the deployment of US nuclear missiles to Greenham Common etc.
Lots of these things happened between 75 and 85, but they happened in a spaced out way, had they come together and the country had looked like breaking down then a coup might have been a possibility, though I think it would have been dressed up as a state of emergency, involved troops as little as possible and leaned heavily on the moral authority of the Monarchy which had not at that point been diluted by the scandals on the late 80's and 90's. If somehow you bought tougher the public mood towards the monarchy of 1997 with the socio-economic unrest of the late 70's you could have a very potent condition.
That said the UK has often been seen as being close to revolution, e.g. in the post Napoleonic period, but never managed it.
1 Labour winning late 70's general election followed by Callaghan being ousted by a Livingstone style coup.
2 Further escalation of violence in N. Ireland spilling over to the mainland
3 A greater degree of union disruption than occurred in the winter of 78/79, possibly involving the miners or a degree of general strike action. (remember the firefighters were on strike for a significant length of time in the late 70's)
4 Significant anti-police demonstrations leading to more deaths of demonstrators, ( e.g. Blair Peach) and escalating public disorder.
5 Greater political action around the deployment of US nuclear missiles to Greenham Common etc.
Lots of these things happened between 75 and 85, but they happened in a spaced out way, had they come together and the country had looked like breaking down then a coup might have been a possibility, though I think it would have been dressed up as a state of emergency, involved troops as little as possible and leaned heavily on the moral authority of the Monarchy which had not at that point been diluted by the scandals on the late 80's and 90's. If somehow you bought tougher the public mood towards the monarchy of 1997 with the socio-economic unrest of the late 70's you could have a very potent condition.
That said the UK has often been seen as being close to revolution, e.g. in the post Napoleonic period, but never managed it.
The public mood towards the monarchy in 1997 was fine, support for the monarchy has never dropped below 65% in the UK since regular polling began in 1969. The media had a clear agenda to shift focus from them onto anything else in 1997, the same way it is now doing in relation to press regulation.
Ultimately if the Queen was complicit in supporting a anti democratic coup she would effectively damn her reputation for history, assuming this happened post 1981 then she could look to her cousin's experience in Spain and then look further back to his brother-in-law in Greece. If it was before, Constantine's II's example would be constantly in her mind.
I think the Queen would have to insist that the coup ringleaders either go to the polls to secure a mandate or she would abdicate the British crown, that would be a true test and preserve her reputation for posterity.
Assuming the coup ringleaders refused, she could abdicate and would remain Queen of Canada, Australia etc and on the basis that those countries would have almost certainly condemned any anti-democratic coup in the UK, would probably welcome her as a permanently resident monarch and she would have gone to say Canada and become wildly popular and lauded, especially in the United States, who would have been horrified by what had happened to their staunchest ally.
Elizabeth's abdication in the face of an anti-democracy movement would have probably resulted in her becoming a global symbol of democracy and lead to her winning the Nobel Peace Prize.
One of the putative revolting Colonels was overheard threatening "the queen shall be dethroned!" - although it's always been assumed that he was referring to Ted Heath rather than HM.
I do agree that the Queen would be very leery of any coup and demand a swift return to normality and democracy (and might well be forced into abdication because of that). But the American government had done its level best to get rid of Wilson its own way, and certainly wasn't known for any refusals to work with un- and anti-democratic leaders throughout the Cold War (although Carter was the President least guilty of this, even he was happy enough to hold his nose on several occasions - and the whole thing would probably be a fait accompli by the time he comes along, though I wonder how such a coup might affect the 1976 American election).