How to make the SNP a right wing political party?

The Scottish National Party, is quite left wing, fitting in with a trend found with other nationalist parties in the UK that have some form of mainstream appeal, what I am wondering is what societal, political or economic conditions would be needed for the SNP to be founded on right wing principles, and still retain some semblance of popularity in Scotland?
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
SNP are civic nationalists, but weren't founded that way, with their shift to the left thanks to the influence of the socialistic '79 Group (Margo MacDonald, Alex Salmond, Stephen Maxwell the most prominent) who formed after the failure of the 1979 Scottish Devolution Referendum with the outright intent to bring the SNP into the left-wing working class clique, believing it would win them more support and success. Obviously it did.

Obviously having the Referendum pass and an assembly be set up would have the CNS types remain in control for longer, however the shift left was something that was going to happen, or the party would have been split in two.

Even without a victory, and the '79 rising, without Sillars joining there is the potential that the '79 could have been weaker and Winnie Erwing's CNS could have won it, but that's sort of a long shot.
 
You might wanna look at the history of the social-democratic/sovereigntist Parti Quebecois in Quebec(Canada), which, while it had maintained a certain Us Vs. Them cultural nationalism right from the beginning(eg. fretting in the 1960s about immigrants bring educated in English), has really gotten into that hardcore in the last decade or so. One of their most recent leaders was the owner of a chain of right-wing tabloid papers famous for fanning the flames of xenophobia, and he reputedly tried to enhance those tendencies the party. (In fairness, some of his English papers were also vehemently anti-Quebec, but I doubt he was trying to bring THAT tendency into the PQ). The party has also championed "feminist" and "secularist" regulation of religious face-covering(obviously targeting Muslims), while simultaneously supporting things like the continued display of a crucifix above the Speaker's chair in the Assembly.

I'm not exactly sure what happened to the PQ that hasn't happened to the SNP. Maybe the linguistic issue, with immigrants more interested in learning French than English, helped push the party in a more chauvinistic direction. If the SNP was trying to make Gaelic the language of everyday life and business in Scotland, but migrant workers all wanted to speak English, the party might take a somewhat dimmer view of the EU and Schenegen.

On economics, I'm not sure how much responsibility for that the party has in the devolved legislature. If the day comes when they feel compelled to institute slash-and-burn austerity programs, that might weaken their claims to being economically leftist. This happened to the PQ in the late 1970s, though I think they're still generally considered social democratic.
 
SNP are civic nationalists, but weren't founded that way, with their shift to the left thanks to the influence of the socialistic '79 Group (Margo MacDonald, Alex Salmond, Stephen Maxwell the most prominent) who formed after the failure of the 1979 Scottish Devolution Referendum with the outright intent to bring the SNP into the left-wing working class clique, believing it would win them more support and success. Obviously it did.

Obviously having the Referendum pass and an assembly be set up would have the CNS types remain in control for longer, however the shift left was something that was going to happen, or the party would have been split in two.

Even without a victory, and the '79 rising, without Sillars joining there is the potential that the '79 could have been weaker and Winnie Erwing's CNS could have won it, but that's sort of a long shot.

Maybe avoiding Thatcher would also do it.

teg
 
Hmm, all very interesting points.

So, in some cases a move left was inevitable, but in others needing certain things to keep in right, would be possible
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
Maybe avoiding Thatcher would also do it.

teg
No, it wouldn't. The Scottish Devolution Referendum was, along with the Welsh Devolution Referendum, negotiated by the SNP and Plaid Cymru in exchange for their support of the Callaghan Government. No Thatcher makes no difference as, if the Government is in the same situation of a minority just with Whitelaw across the chamber, those negotiations are still going to happen. If the turnout fails to hit the right level as IoTL (and I'm not sure how Whitelaw being in charge will turn that turnout up), the SNP will still undergo their major internal realignment as Margo is likely to reach the same conclusion of the failure of the referendum, and the likes of Salmond and Maxwell are still members and rising stars.

If however the turnout goes up and the Referendum is a success, then the internal shift is going to potentially happen later because the elements are all still present and rising in the party, unless you get someone like Ewing in charge and she nips the Socialist Republican clique in the bud.
 
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Perhaps have the Scottish wing remain dominant, most of them were former Scottish Unionists who supported Home Rule for Scotland.
 

To cut a long story short independence would essentially require an austerity programme in order that Scotland gets its finances in order and establish economic credibility, and that would involve some generally some pretty unpopular political decisions, the left of the SNP would inevitably split off at some point a la SYRIZA, within five years you would have a de facto centre-right party following the line of the EU and the IMF as a 'responsible' government. Whether it survives as a governing party or not it wouldn't be centre-left anymore, which in any case is already pretty skin-deep in the SNP's case.
 
To cut a long story short independence would essentially require an austerity programme in order that Scotland gets its finances in order and establish economic credibility, and that would involve some generally some pretty unpopular political decisions, the left of the SNP would inevitably split off at some point a la SYRIZA, within five years you would have a de facto centre-right party following the line of the EU and the IMF as a 'responsible' government. Whether it survives as a governing party or not it wouldn't be centre-left anymore, which in any case is already pretty skin-deep in the SNP's case.

Alright interesting, I do think they'd need to do some planning before independence properly, otherwise we'd have a situation like what is happening now in the UK with brexit.
 
Arguably the SNP was founded on right wing principles in the 1930's. Not as far right as the fascists but certainly closer to the Tories than Labour. This evolved over time to a more centrist Social Democrat set of policies. Of course their nickname after they refused to support Labour in 1979 in a no confidence vote was the "Tartan Tories" and they were nearly wiped out electorally because of it.

As others have said the recent move towards the left is driven more by electoral expediency than doctrine. The SNP have some quite illiberal policies toward individuals and tend towards centralisation of power (but that isn't a feature unique to the right - witness the USSR)
 
Arguably the SNP was founded on right wing principles in the 1930's. Not as far right as the fascists but certainly closer to the Tories than Labour. This evolved over time to a more centrist Social Democrat set of policies. Of course their nickname after they refused to support Labour in 1979 in a no confidence vote was the "Tartan Tories" and they were nearly wiped out electorally because of it.

As others have said the recent move towards the left is driven more by electoral expediency than doctrine. The SNP have some quite illiberal policies toward individuals and tend towards centralisation of power (but that isn't a feature unique to the right - witness the USSR)

Hmm very true, I suppose, if it became electorally expedient to move rightward, they would.
 
Alright interesting, I do think they'd need to do some planning before independence properly, otherwise we'd have a situation like what is happening now in the UK with brexit.

Independence would be Brexit times forty. Starting an independent state from scratch is an incredibly more weighty proposition than the UK just leaving the EU - and that is a complex thing itself. You would basically be starting economic and financial systems entirely from scratch. For instance, nobody has any idea what currency Scotland would use after independence - and none of the options are particularly good.
 
Independence would be Brexit times forty. Starting an independent state from scratch is an incredibly more weighty proposition than the UK just leaving the EU - and that is a complex thing itself. You would basically be starting economic and financial systems entirely from scratch. For instance, nobody has any idea what currency Scotland would use after independence - and none of the options are particularly good.

All very true, which is why forward thinking needs to be done, something it seems the SNP lacks.
 
My shot as political scientist:
You must make division with other parties on some Issue where you profile yourself to the right.
Questions is what kind of Right wing you want?
You can have Nationalistic Right wing with ůeft economic program ie PiS "Prawo i Spravedlnost" Law and justice in Poland.
You can have multi cultural economic right. ie Sarkozy.
So you must provide some competitive advantage over other parties.
Triggers could be Religion, Economics, Culture etc. Since SNP is local Party it would have to react to some central issues based on Scottish different attitudes to some central issue to the right.

I will make ATL case for most right wing SNP I can.
Culture:
1) Some high profile rape cases, murders by non Uk citizens.
2) Tories are trying to by in middle. "Muh diversity"
3) Scottish are more mad. For Example it happens in some districts important for Speaker,
4) They go mad. Tories will not protect you.
5) Tories can not counter - fear of losing parts of Anglia.

Economics:

1) Brutal tax cuts for middle classes.
2) Financed by LVT.
3) Voucher system for schools. - Catch middle high classes
4) Cut regulations (maybe only for small business).
5) More powers for Scots Parliament.

Military:
I want those bases!
I want more of Scottish units!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleavage_(politics)
 
If you want a late POD here's a good one. No Iraq war, Iraq allowed SNP to expand in areas they hadn't before like inner Glasgow and especially strong in Muslim communities there. Without Iraq they may focus attacking Labour from the right which will be effective to a degree especially while is plagued with the issue of incumbency. SNP are more populist than anything and with a finical crisis and the right positioning they can do what UKIP couldn't do North of the border
 
Now that would be very interesting. Though by no Iraq War, do you mean no British involvement, or no war full stop? As if it's the latter, how does one convince Bush that Hussein doesn't have the weapons, he really didn't have?
 
Now that would be very interesting. Though by no Iraq War, do you mean no British involvement, or no war full stop? As if it's the latter, how does one convince Bush that Hussein doesn't have the weapons, he really didn't have?
Either works,I think no Iraq period as I think that might be easier to work out. For that maybe be less Neo-Con's in the Bush administration, or maybe Blair convinces him to try use sanctions and UN and at most another Operation Desert Fox. Blair could have also been more demanding on the intelligence services to get so better proof, Blair OTL was in my opinion like gambler as he had alot of success with military intervention and this blinded with as well is ideological belief in removing Saddam
 
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