How to make a Socially Conservative Economically left USA?

If the Republicans pass civil rights, I could see the reverse where the Republicans are socially liberal and economically liberal whereas the Democrats are Christian democrats and cultural conservatives.
Point is, dependency is key here. If people are dependent on something only one political party provides, they'll be a reliable voting bloc for that party. So if in this timeline, the libertarian left will immediately enact OTL's Nixon's 1972 Opening Of China and the consequential demise of American employability in race-to-the-bottom competition with totalitarian sweatshops unless the nationalist right stops them and every voter knows this, the nationalist right will have a reliable voting bloc of everyone but the billionaires who'd profit from cheaper foreign labor from said race-to-the-bottom competition.
 

Ian_W

Banned
So I'm writing a story where I have a major challenge: I'm trying to make the USA very socially conservative (pro gun, religious, etc.) but also economically left without it turning into super racist.

What's your definition of "super racist" - the example of Ike has been brought up. Is about that racist less or more racist than "super racist" ?

Then you have problematic people like LBJ, who was a racist for career purposes (it being hard to advance as a Texas politician if you're seen as pro-Negro), and then an anti-racist.
 
What's your definition of "super racist" - the example of Ike has been brought up. Is about that racist less or more racist than "super racist" ?

Then you have problematic people like LBJ, who was a racist for career purposes (it being hard to advance as a Texas politician if you're seen as pro-Negro), and then an anti-racist.

Like there isn't segregation or anything like that. It doesnt matter if you are white or black or anything else. Basically people aren't racist at all
 

Ian_W

Banned
Like there isn't segregation or anything like that. It doesnt matter if you are white or black or anything else. Basically people aren't racist at all

Then you're going to see the economically left party split on civil rights, as one of the issues is the complex issue of race, unionism and sharing the fruits of postwar economic growth.
 
Bring World War 2 or equivalent destruction to American shores en masse, create the conditions that lead to the welfare states of Europe after World War II. Convince these same people that somehow amoralism or moral deviance was responsible for the war itself.
 
It would be hard to sustain in the long run. You're asking people to overcome the worst of human instincts across the board.
So I'm writing a story where I have a major challenge: I'm trying to make the USA very socially conservative (pro gun, religious, etc.) but also economically left without it turning into super racist.

Not really sustainable in the long run. It requires people to care about the well being of others to the point of exercising restraint in their own lives.

Good POD to get close would be a successful Operation Eagle Claw. Might give Carter a rally around the flag boost and (via the surge in optimism) a better economy in 1980. Maybe just enough to save Carter. The GOP says "we tried the Reagan thing and it didn't work, let's stuck with the Rockefeller Republicans from now on".

With a moderately successful, evangelical Southern Democrat on the books, and the Eastern Establishment having the upper hand among Republicans, cultural conservatives will split or lean D.
 
Well, the most conservative I think the US could realistically get would be a country where abortion is extremely limited in nearly every state, gay marriage is illegal, immigration is severely restricted and in general culture is much more conservative. I would really hate living in this world lol, but here's a half baked timeline.

1.) The Second Great Awakening happens differently, between 1850 and 1920 American faiths develop differently. No specific PODs, but a few speakers are different, a few more influential books are written in a certain direction, and all this results in a less racist and more universalist kind of faith, with a greater focus on charity. Also, more churches end up as OTL Mormons, in that they are generally more cultish. This wouldn't be all churches, but enough of a general trend.
2.) The wave of immigration wave of Europeans between 1880 and 1930 is significantly less than OTL, maybe only 10% of OTL's numbers arrive. This is because of greater pressure on the government to limit immigration in the north.
3.) This slows down American growth and expansion massively, e.g many territories will become a state a decade later than OTL, or the Dakotas may become a single state ITTL. This lack of growth from immigration is somewhat counteracted by a larger natural growth, as these religious changes tend to promote larger families. Importantly, it keeps the US more rural than IOTL.
4.) Northern recruiters go south for their factories since they can't go to Europe. This results in the Great Migration being even larger, and a much larger African American population in the North and West. For example IOTL in California in 1945 African-Americans were 1% of the population, while ITTL they would be 20%, while in New York around 1/3rd of residents would be Black for example.
5.) This leads to earlier education and economic growth for the black community, earlier representation in Congress.
6.) TV becomes commonplace in the 1930s instead of the 1950s, so segreation ends 20 years earlier.
7.) Culture becomes more progressive between the end of segreation and 2020.
8.) By 2020, the US is dominated by rural and religious voters due to little immigration. Religious sects nationwide, mostly rural, have high birthrates comparable to OTL Mormons, while cities have little growth due to little immigration, and much of their growth in the 21st century has come from these religious minorities sending their excess kids to the cities. This means that in urban areas parties still have to toe the line in socially progressive politics. However, with less immigration the labour rights movement grows even stronger in the early 1900s. Also, importantly this America develops as a bi-cultural approach, where the country is seen as a mixed African-American and Anglo-Celtic one, just as New Zealand is seen as a mixed Maori and European country by it's residents. A more similar culture and a small population, combined with churches preaching more compassionate government policy enables universal healthcare nationwide in the 1960s, and greater worker's rights. However, 'traditional family values' are also pushed by law. Unfortunately by 2020 only Maine has gay marriage, 15 years before OTL, with 3 other states having civil partnership. In urban areas women's rights are similar to OTL, but with only 60% of the US being urban this means in the rural areas the idea of 'mother first, life second' is still sadly pushed onto a lot of mothers.

Good enough for you? Not very realistic and bad for LGBT folks (myself included), but if nothing else this USA would be less racist and have more healthcare protection.
 
Well, the most conservative I think the US could realistically get would be a country where abortion is extremely limited in nearly every state, gay marriage is illegal, immigration is severely restricted and in general culture is much more conservative. I would really hate living in this world lol, but here's a half baked timeline.

1.) The Second Great Awakening happens differently, between 1850 and 1920 American faiths develop differently. No specific PODs, but a few speakers are different, a few more influential books are written in a certain direction, and all this results in a less racist and more universalist kind of faith, with a greater focus on charity. Also, more churches end up as OTL Mormons, in that they are generally more cultish. This wouldn't be all churches, but enough of a general trend.
2.) The wave of immigration wave of Europeans between 1880 and 1930 is significantly less than OTL, maybe only 10% of OTL's numbers arrive. This is because of greater pressure on the government to limit immigration in the north.
3.) This slows down American growth and expansion massively, e.g many territories will become a state a decade later than OTL, or the Dakotas may become a single state ITTL. This lack of growth from immigration is somewhat counteracted by a larger natural growth, as these religious changes tend to promote larger families. Importantly, it keeps the US more rural than IOTL.
4.) Northern recruiters go south for their factories since they can't go to Europe. This results in the Great Migration being even larger, and a much larger African American population in the North and West. For example IOTL in California in 1945 African-Americans were 1% of the population, while ITTL they would be 20%, while in New York around 1/3rd of residents would be Black for example.
5.) This leads to earlier education and economic growth for the black community, earlier representation in Congress.
6.) TV becomes commonplace in the 1930s instead of the 1950s, so segreation ends 20 years earlier.
7.) Culture becomes more progressive between the end of segreation and 2020.
8.) By 2020, the US is dominated by rural and religious voters due to little immigration. Religious sects nationwide, mostly rural, have high birthrates comparable to OTL Mormons, while cities have little growth due to little immigration, and much of their growth in the 21st century has come from these religious minorities sending their excess kids to the cities. This means that in urban areas parties still have to toe the line in socially progressive politics. However, with less immigration the labour rights movement grows even stronger in the early 1900s. Also, importantly this America develops as a bi-cultural approach, where the country is seen as a mixed African-American and Anglo-Celtic one, just as New Zealand is seen as a mixed Maori and European country by it's residents. A more similar culture and a small population, combined with churches preaching more compassionate government policy enables universal healthcare nationwide in the 1960s, and greater worker's rights. However, 'traditional family values' are also pushed by law. Unfortunately by 2020 only Maine has gay marriage, 15 years before OTL, with 3 other states having civil partnership. In urban areas women's rights are similar to OTL, but with only 60% of the US being urban this means in the rural areas the idea of 'mother first, life second' is still sadly pushed onto a lot of mothers.

Good enough for you? Not very realistic and bad for LGBT folks (myself included), but if nothing else this USA would be less racist and have more healthcare protection.

That actually works great thanks
 
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