How to geographically expand New York City ???

Is there any possible way to geographically expand NYC ? How do you add new counties to the city and is there anyway to include New Jersey counties ? How would a multi-state city work ?
 

tedio

Banned
Within the framework of the American Federal system, there's no way for New York City to incorporate parts of New Jersey without either New York or New Jersey ceding the territory, or some sort of constitutional exception.
 

SinghKing

Banned
Well, this is a Before 1900 thread, so couldn't you potentially alter the position of the state boundaries?
 
The state legislature could have allowed NYC to expand into all of Long Island, not to mention the counties to the north.
 

tedio

Banned
Well, this is a Before 1900 thread, so couldn't you potentially alter the position of the state boundaries?

You'd need to go back to pre-Revolutionary times. Possibly some point around the time that the Carteret was granted the land between the Hudson and the Delaware as a proprietary colony. Maybe handwave the Duke of York's payment entirely, because the Hudson is the most likely border. Any adjustments are more likely to put Staten Island in New Jersey than anything else.
 
Within the framework of the American Federal system, there's no way for New York City to incorporate parts of New Jersey without either New York or New Jersey ceding the territory, or some sort of constitutional exception.

Why? Cities aren't mentioned in the constitution, cities aren't required to be in a single state. The examples of Lloydminster and Alsask on the Alberta/Saskatchewan border show that it's possible to have cities that span subnational boundaries.
 
There are a few instances of cities straddling state lines, but they're really sister cities with the same name. Texarkana comes to mind immediately. There's also one on the Nevada/Utah border but I can't remember the name right now.
 

tedio

Banned
Why? Cities aren't mentioned in the constitution, cities aren't required to be in a single state. The examples of Lloydminster and Alsask on the Alberta/Saskatchewan border show that it's possible to have cities that span subnational boundaries.

If you simply mean a continuous urban area, then New York City arguably extends well beyond its geographical boundaries into both other parts of New York and into New Jersey. If we mean administratively, then no such thing exists within the US.

There are a few instances of cities straddling state lines, but they're really sister cities with the same name. Texarkana comes to mind immediately. There's also one on the Nevada/Utah border but I can't remember the name right now.

Yes, but those aren't unified municipalities, they're abutting municipalities. Like Kansas City, MO, and Kansas City, KS.
 
I wonder if we can get it to be decided that the Hudson is a fundamental part of New York back when borders are being set, leading to the Hackensack (or something) being used to set the border instead.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
There's a long series of precedent in US law, however

Why? Cities aren't mentioned in the constitution, cities aren't required to be in a single state. The examples of Lloydminster and Alsask on the Alberta/Saskatchewan border show that it's possible to have cities that span subnational boundaries.


There's a long series of precedent in US law, however, that limit incorporated municipalities to one state - the federal-state-local system pretty much requires it. Crossing state boundaries for "local" needs is possible - the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey being an obvious example - but they are generally pretty rare and negotiated through what amount to joint power authorities between states, not between municipalities in two different states. It is not the Port Authority of New York City and Newark, for example.

Even the District of Columbia, for example, retroceded the southern half of the district to Virginia.

Long Island, notably Nassau and Suffolk counties, are a possibility (Kings County corresponds with the NYC borough of Brooklyn, and Queens County with Queens Borough); west across the Hudson is more of a challenge, since due west is actually New Jersey; north into Westchester County from Bronx County/Bronx Borough is a possibility, but the larger issue is that Albany and the general structure of political power in New York state is to deal with NYC as the 800-pound gorilla as it is...

Along with that, the question has to be asked why? As it was consolidation only came about in 1898, and although there were fairly sound political and economic reasons to argue for it for the five (historic) boroughs, there were also reasons the city stopped there.

Best,
 
Bump ?

I was hoping there would be a way to have a multi-state NYC though. It can expand up and east towards Long Island. But is there any plausible way for New Jersey counties to be with NYC ?
 
Probably not once the US becomes independent, unless you have a way for the federal system to include interstate municipalities in some way. It might not be too hard to establish a precedent for it in the early does of the US though, since there would be and still are lots of cities that span multiple counties. Maybe it's set as a compromise for the Toledo War ending in Toledo being divided between Michigan and Ohio along the Maumee but still having a single city government?
 

tedio

Banned
I was hoping there would be a way to have a multi-state NYC though. It can expand up and east towards Long Island. But is there any plausible way for New Jersey counties to be with NYC ?

A multistate unitary municipal authority isn't possible under the current Federal system. You'd have to change the constitution.
 
A multistate unitary municipal authority isn't possible under the current Federal system. You'd have to change the constitution.

Or, have New York DCity declared a separate state, with some sort of convention between states discussing what communities would then choose to belong to it and which would remain in their original states.
 

tedio

Banned
Or, have New York DCity declared a separate state, with some sort of convention between states discussing what communities would then choose to belong to it and which would remain in their original states.

Sure, you could do that, but it still wouldn't be a multi-state unitary municipality.
 
You could have NYC expand through land reclamation; that's largely what Boston did in OTL.

New York did quite a bit of that too IOTL, plus most of Boston's expansion was actually annexing surrounding towns like Dorchester and Roxbury.
 
New York did quite a bit of that too IOTL, plus most of Boston's expansion was actually annexing surrounding towns like Dorchester and Roxbury.

Which still doesn't quite explain - except for land reclamation (including levelling down several hills) - how the Shawmut Peninsula, the centre of Boston itself (what is largely now the North End) changed shape over the centuries, and how much of the former landfill was unearthed when the Big Dig occurred.
 
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