How to better the situation for the Russians during the Russo-Japanese War?

Flubber

Banned
The capacity of the Trans-Sib is a bit of a red herring in threads of this type. The truth of the matter is that the Russians in theatre always outnumbered the Japanese, the Russians outnumbered the Japanese in every battle apart from the early ones like the Yalu crossing and Nashan, that the Russians were adequately supplied throughout the war, that losses in men and materials were always made good before the next round of fighting, and that the Russians never lost a battle due logistical deficits alone.

Supply was a concern for the Russians, never an overriding factor. Russia had depots in place well before the war, many items were sourced locally, and the seemingly slow tempo of combat allowed both sides to build up the stores they required. This wasn't WW1 with it's constant expenditure of materials. Apart from the siege lines around Port Arthur, battles were separated by weeks and months.

The capacity of the Trans-Sib did not lose the war for the Russians. Instead it was the all to usual criminal incompetence of the late Czarist era regime.

As previously mentioned, saving Makarov from drowning could go a long way towards bettering the Russian situation. He not only led an active naval defense of Port Arthur, he spurred an active land defense too.

Killing off or otherwise removing Stoessel can only help. His inertia before and during the siege hurt Russia tremendously. When you consider how close Nogi came to permanently ruining the Third Army in his boneheaded attempts to take Port Arthur, you cannot help but wonder what a marginally better defense of the port might have accomplished.

Saving Vitgeft would have profound effects too. At the time he was killed, dusk was falling, the Japanese were still engaged in a stern chase of the Russian battleline, and many of the main batteries aboard the IJN ships were out of action due to faulty ammunition. If the Russian fleet had been able to reach Vladivostok, Japan would have been faced with the prospect blockading a much stronger port much further away from her own bases.

Finally, revealing that Gapon was in the pay of the Okhrana might delay or short circuit the 1905 Revolution and allow Russia to fight longer.

Japan ran this war on a knife edge. Every day Russia fights longer is a day Japan gets closer to defeat.
 

Strategos

Banned
Yeah, but confidence is the key here. If the rail is more efficient, it might give Nicky more confidence in it.

You know, its amazing. Wilhelm was arrogant but he wasnt completely balls out incompetent.

If there is one leader among the Great/Super powers of the last 120 years that you could reasonably expect to be an incompetent bungler in nearly every presentable situation, its Czar Nicholas II. And it's more tragic than horrifying because he knew himself how unsuited he was.:(

Really, Russia just staying in the war and pressing on would be enough. Possibly enough to not only take back what the Japanese had taken, but to march down the Korean Peninsula.
 

Cook

Banned
The capacity of the Trans-Sib did not lose the war for the Russians. Instead it was the all to usual criminal incompetence of the late Czarist era regime.
Definately, the only purpose of my post was to point out that the quality of the track, and that it was a single track not a dual track, wasn't an issue, Russia lacked the rolling stock to do more anyway.

As you have pointed out, giving incompetent commanders more resourses would have done very little expect further fan the fires of revolution in the heart of Russia.
 

Flubber

Banned
Definately, the only purpose of my post was to point out that the quality of the track, and that it was a single track not a dual track, wasn't an issue, Russia lacked the rolling stock to do more anyway.


The only purpose of my post was to counter the simplistic "Herp derp Trans-Sib is why Russia lost herpity derpity doo" argument made by a few posters other than yourself.

Despite winning almost every battle, Japan came frighteningly close to losing the war because of economic reasons. Russia, in the person of Witte, was aware of this and, despite facing a growing revolution at home, extended the peace talks long enough to force Japan to make substantial concessions.
 

Flubber

Banned
Yeah, but confidence is the key here. If the rail is more efficient, it might give Nicky more confidence in it.

No. Just no.

The Czar's confidence played no role in Russia's decision to accept Roosevelt's mediation offer. It was the growing threat posed by the revolution and not losses on the battlefield which led the Czar's advisers to counsel peace. While those defeats did help fuel the revolution, it was the mishandling of earlier protests by the Czarist regime which kicked the revolution off and not Japan's victories.

Nicholas was a profoundly stupid man and exhibited almost no concern over Russia's defeats. An example of that occurred when news of Tsushima reached him. The Czar happened to be playing tennis when an aide brought him the telegram detailing Togo's triumph. Nicholas read the message once, stuffed it in his pocket, and continued his game without comment. Wilhelm II wasn't too far off the mark with his "fit only to live in a country house and grow turnips" remark. (Of course, Nicholas' father, Alexander III, repeatedly referred to Wilhelm as a "bad little boy" and would only speak to Wilhelm over his shoulder with his back turned.)

May I suggest you pick up Connaughton's Rising Sun and Tumbling Bear" if you're truly interested in learning more about the war? It's only one volume, making it an easy read for you. It's also fairly recent so it will be easy to find.
 

sharlin

Banned
From a naval point of view the Russians were in a pickle, their forces in the far east were capable and consisted of most of their modern warships but they were spread between two locations with the main fleet at Port Arthur and a trio of armoured cruisers further north at Vladivostok.

The Russian ships were pritty good, inferior to their Japanese rivals but still no slouches and under Admiral Markaroff they had a good leader but the Russians were still not as well trained as their Japanese opponents and they were outnumbered.

Even if Makaroff had not been killed on his flagship when she hit a mine its doubtful they could have out fought the Japanese in a stand up battle.
 
Although at a tangent to the request from the OP, perhaps it is easier simply for Russia to avoid war with Japan in the first place. From a book I read several years ago, the Japanese were willing to offer recognition of Russian interests in Manchuria if the Russians would recognise their interest in Korea.
 

sharlin

Banned
Aye but both were antagonising one another and it does seem to be one of those things that was going to happen.
 

Flubber

Banned
From a naval point of view the Russians were in a pickle...

And that didn't matter one whit.

Control of the sea off northeast Asia was an absolute necessity for Japan and of no consequence to Russia. While Japan's logistics effort required control of the sea, Russia's land based logistics efforts could and did wholly ignore the sea. Russian naval successes could have profoundly effected Japan's war effort, but Russian naval disasters had little effect on Russia's war effort.
 
...

May I suggest you pick up Connaughton's Rising Sun and Tumbling Bear" if you're truly interested in learning more about the war? It's only one volume, making it an easy read for you. It's also fairly recent so it will be easy to find.

Yep, throughly recommended. Re-reading it right now. Well not RIGHT now, but it's on my reading stack.
 

Strategos

Banned
Although at a tangent to the request from the OP, perhaps it is easier simply for Russia to avoid war with Japan in the first place. From a book I read several years ago, the Japanese were willing to offer recognition of Russian interests in Manchuria if the Russians would recognise their interest in Korea.
But they are just uppity Chinamen, who cares what they want?/TypicalRussianAttitude.

No seriously, racism as general casual rule was more than alive at this time, pretty much everywhere. Besides, Russia *knew* that it would beat this new, tiny, insignificant spec of a power. That they didnt rightfully shocked the world and gave Japan some respect. And dragged Russia's name through a little mroe mud.
And that didn't matter one whit.

Control of the sea off northeast Asia was an absolute necessity for Japan and of no consequence to Russia. While Japan's logistics effort required control of the sea, Russia's land based logistics efforts could and did wholly ignore the sea. Russian naval successes could have profoundly effected Japan's war effort, but Russian naval disasters had little effect on Russia's war effort.
It was the equivalent of the Tet Offensive. Militarily not that bad, but politically a disaster at home.
 
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