How The French Empire Be Bigger

See you keep assuming this is somehow dynamic; that a stronger France will merely provoke a stronger Austria, or something. History doesn't seem to work like that. Poland didn't reform when faced with a stronger Prussia and Russia; it was removed from the map for over a hundred years.

Poland tried to reform, its reforms were simply halted from working by neighbors that had no reason to want them to succeed.
 
Poland tried to reform, its reforms were simply halted from working by neighbors that had no reason to want them to succeed.

So you agreeing it was unsuccessful in reforming.

To blame it merely on its neighbors is misguided. Poland had a lot of probles before the Partitions, which should have been obvious when its neighbors used it as a battlefield.
 
See you keep assuming this is somehow dynamic; that a stronger France will merely provoke a stronger Austria, or something. History doesn't seem to work like that. Poland didn't reform when faced with a stronger Prussia and Russia; it was removed from the map for over a hundred years.

No, I keep assuming that France's neighbors are unlikely to be stupid or meek. Poland-Lithuania sabotaged itself from within before Russia and Prussia were even issues.

I know you love being contrary, but why in the name of Heaven are France's neighbors NOT going to react to a stronger France? Even if say, Bavaria (alt-timeline Austria) is busy elsewhere, that doesn't mean there won't be an anti-French coalition formed like OTL.

OTL is a pretty good timeline for France. This is not a matter of a poor country that got gyped of ever having a chance.
 
I acknowledge there might be. What I dispute is that it would a) succeed, and b) that it would behave as you propose.

Napoleon was able to find allies in OTL, after all. Bavaria, Denmark, the Ottomans, Spain. States do not have a myopic interest in keeping France down.
 
I acknowledge there might be. What I dispute is that it would a) succeed, and b) that it would behave as you propose.

Napoleon was able to find allies in OTL, after all. Bavaria, Denmark, the Ottomans, Spain. States do not have a myopic interest in keeping France down.

a) It certainly can. It might fail, but judging by OTL - as in, the powers that formed in opposition to France - it is not going to take a miracle to find a force capable of standing in France's way if France tries for more than OTL.

b) The problem is that keeping France down is anything but myopic for its neighbors. NOT doing so when France is trying to expand is what would be myopic.


Not to mention that Spain was largely one of France's enemies OTL (not always, obviously). Just something worth remembering.
 
I acknowledge there might be. What I dispute is that it would a) succeed, and b) that it would behave as you propose.

Napoleon was able to find allies in OTL, after all. Bavaria, Denmark, the Ottomans, Spain. States do not have a myopic interest in keeping France down.

International Relations theory teaches that states tend to form alliances designed to maintain the balance of power against any one power emerging as top dog. However, that flips when one power looks like it will successfully be top dog and your best chance is to hope they'll reward loyalty. I think Napoleonic France was approximately in the middle of that flip. However, I'd say that Royalist France is unlikely to get the administrative and military effectiveness to be as strong as Napoleonic France.
 
A successful 1798 rebellion in Ireland, effectively makes Ireland a French colony until after a while Ala Malta, the locals beg on bended knees for the Brits to come back!
 
The problem is the British navy. They can totally destroy the French in the attempt.

In OTL, a French Army came back to France due to bad weather, not due to the Royal Navy. I hate this when people say "Royal Navy !" and think it will solve every problem that the brits faced.
 
In OTL, a French Army came back to France due to bad weather, not due to the Royal Navy. I hate this when people say "Royal Navy !" and think it will solve every problem that the brits faced.

Given the skill and strength of the Royal Navy, it is a very serious obstacle to those who would mess with Britain and its interests.

Treating it as irrelevant is a fine way to wind up with it smashing up your fleet.

I'm not saying it was invincible, but it at least has to be factored in.
 
Given the skill and strength of the Royal Navy, it is a very serious obstacle to those who would mess with Britain and its interests.

Treating it as irrelevant is a fine way to wind up with it smashing up your fleet.

I'm not saying it was invincible, but it at least has to be factored in.

But everyone act as if the 19th century domination of the Royal Navy was the same in the centuries before and after. During the ARW for example, the French Navy was almost on par with the Royal Navy.
 
It is a long time since I looked at this thread, but I think I am going to put my word in.

I think if the French manage the win the War of Spanish Succession their way, they may be as large as they could ever be. However, of course, administration is difficult so I do not know what could happen from that point.

My guess would be that the Biurbons would reform the colonial governments system to be more efficient, but I dunno what else that could solve.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
If France could achieve good relations with Prussia and Austria before the race for Africa, it would free up a lot of resources for competition in the colonial area.
 
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