How? : Surviving Pannonian Croatia

How obtain a surviving Pannonian Croatia, without having a dalmatian Croatia, without successful Magyar settlement in the territory, with a pod in the IX?

EDIT : Or, thinking about it, the odds of a surviving Blaton Principalty?
 
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Germaniac

Donor
Once the Magyars get there its not really likely that anyone but the Bavarians could kick them out. There just wasn't that much power behind the Croatians to kick out a well established group.
 
Once the Magyars get there its not really likely that anyone but the Bavarians could kick them out. There just wasn't that much power behind the Croatians to kick out a well established group.

Well, as i said, without sufficient magyars settlement (by exemple, outed by franco-bavarians, making them going North, in Poland)
 
As a croatian I can tell you that it would be impossible. You would have a nation that is even more divided than it was historically and easier prey for, if not Hungary as you state, than medieval kingdom of Bosnia or Despotate of Serbia ( Rashka ). Only medieval example of a quasi independent rule after going under personal union with hungarians dating to 1102. was the rule of the noble Pavao Šubić in 13. cent. And his part of croatian lands where he ruled was centralized as hell.
 
What were Croatian population back then anyway? AFAIK, there already were Franks (most likely Bavarians) established in Pannonia, which additionally held a hodgepodge of left behinds from various peoples. Without hte Magyars, I think Pannonia would be subject to much stronger Frankish/German colonialization so without the Magyars I'd rather imagine a fate for the Croatians similar to the various western Slavic nations?
 
I think Panonian Romanians will be interesting as Pannonian Yugoslavs.
The problem is that the Roman population during the high-middle ages in Pannonia was...very low. I think, with a pod at the X, that the only way, if Magyars were send in Poland by the ottonians, is that slavs replace them.
So, a surviving slav state in Pannonia would be considered as "croat", or another slav nationality?

Monty Burns said:
What were Croatian population back then anyway? AFAIK, there already were Franks (most likely Bavarians) established in Pannonia, which additionally held a hodgepodge of left behinds from various peoples. Without hte Magyars, I think Pannonia would be subject to much stronger Frankish/German colonialization so without the Magyars I'd rather imagine a fate for the Croatians similar to the various western Slavic nations?

Well, i don't think the german colonization would be enough to give a germanic face to Pannonia. It took many decenies to over-numbered and acculturate the West Slaves...In the other hand, if the german colonisation take place in Pannonia, maybe we could have some surviving West Slavic nations?
 
In Raptor of Spain the Bavarians took it, but they were themselves heavily Czech. It did result in a surviving Slovakia which is west slavic. Thought that's OTL too kind of.
 
First thing for such a thing to happen would be to find evidence that there was a Panonian Croatia beyond the imagination of the 19th century romantic historians and the future relics of those dreams in todays text books.
 

archaeogeek

Banned
First thing for such a thing to happen would be to find evidence that there was a Panonian Croatia beyond the imagination of the 19th century romantic historians and the future relics of those dreams in todays text books.

I'd agree with that. What little I remember of high medieval Pannonia is that it was people with Avars, not by Croats.
 
I'd agree with that. What little I remember of high medieval Pannonia is that it was people with Avars, not by Croats.
Is the Avars enough presents on all the territory to become major population on a non-magyar Pannonia? I tought that the Avars dominated a slavic-inhabited region.
 
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