How soon would the US have declared war on Germany if Hitler didn’t declare war on the US?

How soon would the US have declared war on Germany if Hitler didn’t declare war on the US?

  • Within 3 months

    Votes: 50 45.0%
  • Within 6 months

    Votes: 26 23.4%
  • Within 9 months

    Votes: 3 2.7%
  • Within a year

    Votes: 17 15.3%
  • The US wouldn’t declare war

    Votes: 15 13.5%

  • Total voters
    111
Not really, isolationism was still relatively strong. It was Pearl Harbour that decisively turned it against the Axis. If Hitler either didn't ally with with the Japanese originally, or completely declared war on him he may have prevented American intervention. Considering that Japan was literally doing nothing for the German war effort, I don't see why it would be that insane. Obviously OTL Hitler was not that good of a strategist, but what if he was?

No isolation was dead by late 1941, 72% of Americans agreed that "the biggest job facing this country today is to help defeat the Nazi Government", and 70% thought that defeating Germany was more important than staying out of the war. Pearl Harbour hardened the perception that fighting the Axis was necessary to secure American security. The US government aren't going to fall for Hitler condemning the Japanese and the public wasn't buying German lies any longer.

In regards to Germany and Japan as allies, the Japanese presented a second front in a war against the United States and Britain. Germany knew that war with the US was inevitable and necessary, lend lease was helping to strangle the German war machine and they can't force the British or the USSR to terms if they keep receiving an endless supply of cheap war materials from America. Japan represented a front that would help distract the United States war machine and help cut Britain off from it's Australasian dominions and Asia, which mean't less men facing the Reich in North Africa.

There's no point poisoning relations with the only other country on earth (besides Italy) that is "on your side" so you can try and crudely trick the already galvanized United States (a nation you are effectively at war with already) that your nations aren't allies (despite publically creating an Alliance and attacking and enslaving conquered democratic nations). This idea doesn't require Hitler being a better strategist, it requires him to be a bigger idiot.
 
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There's no point poisoning relations with the only other country on earth (besides Italy) that is "on your side" so you can try and crudely trick the already galvanized United States (a nation you are effectively at war with already) that your nations aren't allies (despite publically creating an Alliance and attacking and enslaving conquered democratic nations). This idea doesn't require Hitler being a better strategist, it requires him to be a bigger idiot.

The Germans were still hoping to keep the South American front neutral if not hostile to the US. They had some relatively strong connections, and some sympathetic political parties in power. A new round of Banana Wars distracting the US as Mexico did 1914-1917 was unlikely, but things like refusing naval & air bases, and lack of cooperation with industrial matters was hoped for. Declaring war on Japan just makes the German sympathizers in Latin American confused and less cooperative with Germany.
 
No isolation was dead by late 1941, 72% of Americans agreed that "the biggest job facing this country today is to help defeat the Nazi Government", and 70% thought that defeating Germany was more important than staying out of the war. Pearl Harbour hardened the perception that fighting the Axis was necessary to secure American security. The US government aren't going to fall for Hitler condemning the Japanese and the public wasn't buying German lies any longer.

In regards to Germany and Japan as allies, the Japanese presented a second front in a war against the United States and Britain. Germany knew that war with the US was inevitable and necessary, lend lease was helping to strangle the German war machine and they can't force the British or the USSR to terms if they keep receiving an endless supply of cheap war materials from America. Japan represented a front that would help distract the United States war machine and help cut Britain off from it's Australasian dominions and Asia, which mean't less men facing the Reich in North Africa.

There's no point poisoning relations with the only other country on earth (besides Italy) that is "on your side" so you can try and crudely trick the already galvanized United States (a nation you are effectively at war with already) that your nations aren't allies (despite publically creating an Alliance and attacking and enslaving conquered democratic nations). This idea doesn't require Hitler being a better strategist, it requires him to be a bigger idiot.

But again, I also proposed an alternate scenario that the Germans never allied with the Japanese to begin with, which is fairly plausible.
 
But again, I also proposed an alternate scenario that the Germans never allied with the Japanese to begin with, which is fairly plausible.

That point is actually irrelevant. Such a POD four years back alters the politics of Japan. Japan joined the Axis to oppose the USSR and because they were diplomatically isolated by the LoN for invading China and needed to find partners. In 1937 Japan didn't actually want to antagonize Britain until London condemned them. If one of those two things are removed, it means Japan isn't viewing the USSR as a threat or they haven't invaded China. Japans relationship with the world is changed and that likely butterflies the war as we know it. If you want the US to not declare against Germany, you probably need to alter US politics somehow.
 
That point is actually irrelevant. Such a POD four years back alters the politics of Japan. Japan joined the Axis to oppose the USSR and because they were diplomatically isolated by the LoN for invading China and needed to find partners. In 1937 Japan didn't actually want to antagonize Britain until London condemned them. If one of those two things are removed, it means Japan isn't viewing the USSR as a threat or they haven't invaded China. Japans relationship with the world is changed and that likely butterflies the war as we know it. If you want the US to not declare against Germany, you probably need to alter US politics somehow.

But didn't the Germans only engage with the Japanese because they believed they were going to fight the Soviets in the far east. Assuming war breaks out in Europe the same way, why would the US declare war against Germany if they weren't affiliated with Japan?
 
Assuming war breaks out in Europe the same way, why would the US declare war against Germany if they weren't affiliated with Japan?
USN was practically at war already with Uboats and LL means they cant be considered really neutral, why would anything the Japanese don't do change that?
 
USN was practically at war already with Uboats and LL means they cant be considered really neutral, why would anything the Japanese don't do change that?

But that was own Roosevelt's own provocation, if Germany isn't willing to formalize it's undeclared war why would that aggravate the American people? Especially considering the massive amount of Americans who are of German descent, the popular non intervention lobby and a lack of actual German provocations towards America. How could you justify stating Germany is a security threat, when they had nothing to do with Japan?
 

Ian_W

Banned
But that was own Roosevelt's own provocation, if Germany isn't willing to formalize it's undeclared war why would that aggravate the American people? Especially considering the massive amount of Americans who are of German descent, the popular non intervention lobby and a lack of actual German provocations towards America. How could you justify stating Germany is a security threat, when they had nothing to do with Japan?

A Roosevelt radio speech got quoted in full earlier. Go read it.
 

longsword14

Banned
How could you justify stating Germany is a security threat, when they had nothing to do with Japan?
German occupation of Europe and the fall of France really changed things.
Isolationism had lost its popularity by the time of the BoB, So any US administration would have no trouble in giving GB effectively unlimited aid.
 
The only reason FDR did not declare war was because the Americans had been reading the Japanese codes and FDR knew that Germany would declare war on them soon.

A Roosevelt radio speech got quoted in full earlier. Go read it.

The purpose of these radio speeches was to push Hitler into war.
 
But didn't the Germans only engage with the Japanese because they believed they were going to fight the Soviets in the far east. Assuming war breaks out in Europe the same way, why would the US declare war against Germany if they weren't affiliated with Japan?

Because isolationism was dead and there was a prevailing belief that helping Britain and confronting Germany was necessary to protect the United States, as was already pointed out. Japan attacking PH only solidified this belief, but was not the deciding factor.
 
The Germans were still hoping to keep the South American front neutral if not hostile to the US. They had some relatively strong connections, and some sympathetic political parties in power. A new round of Banana Wars distracting the US as Mexico did 1914-1917 was unlikely, but things like refusing naval & air bases, and lack of cooperation with industrial matters was hoped for. Declaring war on Japan just makes the German sympathizers in Latin American confused and less cooperative with Germany.

Even Latin American Axis Sympathisers weren't mostly batshit insane. They were no more likely to cross the US in a meaningful manner than Mexico was in WWI.
 
German occupation of Europe and the fall of France really changed things.
Isolationism had lost its popularity by the time of the BoB, So any US administration would have no trouble in giving GB effectively unlimited aid.

And unlimited US aid to GB spells "Game Over" for Germany sooner or later.
 
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