How SMALL can Germany get?

I'm not sure Central Germany would be stable. The Saar is wealthy and a tempting french target. In OTL they weren't super happy about not being able to keep it in the aftermath of WW2. Otoh the separate Saar dialect is as much a product of post WWI history as anything else. Further, Thuringia skews Lutheran, while Franconia skews Catholic, and the Rheinland-Hesse regions are split too. The region is united by language, but that's about it.
I have divided Germany into five countries, not three:
- Saxony
- Fraconia
- Thuringia
- Alemannia
- Bavaria
I have ignored both the East Low German and the North Upper German speaking regions. Former will be part of Saxony and later will most likely be divided between its four neighbours.
And the PoD will be during the medieval age.
 
As in the title.

With a POD around 900-950, nearly everything east of the Elbe could never become german as it was mainly slavic tribes who populated the area after the migration of the Germans tribes to the west...
 
I disagree. The German eastward expansion will still happen, even if the East Frankia did not became Germany and is divided into several idependent duchies (Franconia, Bavaria, Saxony, Swabia, Lorraine).
 
I disagree. The German eastward expansion will still happen, even if the East Frankia did not became Germany and is divided into several idependent duchies (Franconia, Bavaria, Saxony, Swabia, Lorraine).

The German migration could still happened, but only as individuals migrants, not as a political and military expansion.

Politically and diplomatically, the Sorbs, the Lusatians, the Wends or the Veletes or another western slavic tribes could organized a strong kingdom and stop the german political expansion as the Czech and the Poles were able to stop mots of german expansion after the formation of the Kingdom of Bohemia and of Poland.

If this western slavic tribe is able to chritianize around 900 and have the recognition of the Pope and an independant church structure, it will give them a powerful structure to resist german expansion.
 
The German migration could still happened, but only as individuals migrants, not as a political and military expansion.

Politically and diplomatically, the Sorbs, the Lusatians, the Wends or the Veletes or another western slavic tribes could organized a strong kingdom and stop the german political expansion as the Czech and the Poles were able to stop mots of german expansion after the formation of the Kingdom of Bohemia and of Poland.

If this western slavic tribe is able to chritianize around 900 and have the recognition of the Pope and an independant church structure, it will give them a powerful structure to resist german expansion.

IMHO both options could happen, depending which tribes get organized (at all). For instance the Saxons and Bavarians could still expand eastward, a Eastern border of the area of the German similar to the border of the OTL German kingdom in 1000 is possible. Further expansion, will get harder especially if the Western Slavic (but also Southern Slavic and (depending on POD) Magyar) manage to organize as IOTL.
Once that happens a much smaller scale migration is more likely, however as IOTL they could still be invited in.
 
No they could not, because those regions were already under German influence.

These regions were still considered as only marches of the Kingdom of Germany, so the influence was only partial, and the Wends were still able to start a major uprising in 983.

So as I said in my first post, with a POD in 900-950 and the formation of a west slavic Kingdom similar to the Duchy of Bohemia established in 895 or the Grand Duchy of Poland established in 966, most of the lands east of the Elbe could stay free of major german influence.

This topic isn't about a specific TL, it is about some historical possibilities not ASB... The german expansion in the east can be butterflied in this region if the west slavic Kingdom had a sufficient organisation, is christian and is recognised diplomatically, most important by the Pope.
 
Hanover stays British, Prussia holds onto most of Poland and becomes a German-Slavic mixed nation, Austria is just part of some sort of Danubian federation thingy, a more successful France holds the Rhinelands, and Germany is a smallish country ruled by a Bavarian royal house. Enbiggen the Netherlands while you're at it.

Bruce
 
With nation-states, I can see Germany becoming three small states through the following:

France attains its wish of having its borders lie on the Rhine in its entirety.
Poland manages to attain its borders at the Oder-Neisse, sans Stettin.
Denmark continues to posses Sleswick-Holsatia.

Austria and Bavaria become Austro-Bavaria. Swabia becomes independent out of the remnants of Switzerland. The remainder merge into the German Republic, including the now-rump Netherlands.

smallgermany.png
 
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