How Silent Fall the Cherry Blossoms

[Scientist Shan]

Given that it was his army group that slammed it's face into the Hurtgen Forest repeatedly, I have to agree with you.

There's no way Bradley is going to let Dora just stand there firing gas shells.

If its not destroyed on the first strike then he'll order another with double the numbers and keep repeating until the job is done.

The Allies don't have any shortage of medium bombers or for that matter heavy bombers and ground attack aircraft.

 

[Garrison]

There's no way Bradley is going to let Dora just stand there firing gas shells.

If its not destroyed on the first strike then he'll order another with double the numbers and keep repeating until the job is done.

The Allies don't lack have any shortage of medium bombers or for that matter heavy bombers and ground attack aircraft.

Have to agree; Dora has to be silenced. The effect on morale of not doing so would be horrendous and it's being used to disrupt Patton's advance.

 

[Derek Pullem]

One retaliation that is almost guaranteed from allied TAF is widespread use of napalm in a tactical attack. Precedent had been set in Normandy for "revenge" attacks. This time the Germans will be burned back to the Rhine and beyond.

 

[Donald Reaver]

I would have to agree as well, Patton must be having a fit over the gas shells that are dropping. Would be surprised if he was not on the phone, his is so polite manner, demanding it must be put out of action

 

[Hades]

I can't help but be reminded of Saddam by the ATL Nazis.

 

[sloreck]

Since Dora's position can be fixed, sending over a large number of B-17's, led by pathfinders, and dumping a lot of bombs on the position> Good odds it will be effective. And, as somebody else noted, losing 6 medium bombers is nothing..loose 50 if it stops Dora from the shelling that is impeding Patton.

 

[jlckansas]

If ever there was an area target for carpet bombing it was Dora. There was never a Dombunker built that was big enough to fit it, and with its limited mobility it could not be moved hardly at all. You just need to have a big enough bomber box to fly and drop over the area at the some time. Use a mix of larger and smaller bombs, Napalm, larger fragmentation bombs, Armor piercing(because of the size of steel used) and gas you could really do the area good. If you did it right you might have a primitive version of an Arc Light raid.

 

[Sigma7]

If ever there was an area target for carpet bombing it was Dora. There was never a Dombunker built that was big enough to fit it, and with its limited mobility it could not be moved hardly at all. You just need to have a big enough bomber box to fly and drop over the area at the some time. Use a mix of larger and smaller bombs, Napalm, larger fragmentation bombs, Armor piercing(because of the size of steel used) and gas you could really do the area good. If you did it right you might have a primitive version of an Arc Light raid.

Dump a bunch of Tallboys, Blockbusters and Grand Slams into the target area and you can, if nothing else, vaporize the munitions stores and the gun crew and at least damage the gun itself...and flatten a whole lot of the surrounding area too.

There's a thought for a clip from TTL's 'World at War'; the aerial film footage of about a dozen Grand Slams going off in overlapping blast zones all confined to such a relatively small area.

 

[Electricfox]

I've been racking my brains trying to figure out why the Germans would want to buy time for a losing war when both their enemies have a numerical superiority (even if it is not particularly greater in the case of the W-Allies), and whilst admittedly this is assigning sense to those that have shown little capability for it (the higher echelons of the Nazi regime) the only thing that I could think of that could benefit from prolonging the war AND feasibly bring about a resolution is the Uranverein and 'Virus House' but I fear that this would be straying dangerously close to ASB and Germanwank, so I hope that this is not the case.

Either way, looking forward to seeing where this goes.

 

[pdf27]

I've been racking my brains trying to figure out why the Germans would want to buy time for a losing war when both their enemies have a numerical superiority.

Since they did more or less the same in OTL (just without the chemical weapons, because they thought the Allies would benefit more), I wouldn't worry too much about it!

 

[Tsar of New Zealand]

Since they did more or less the same in OTL (just without the chemical weapons, because they thought the Allies would benefit more), I wouldn't worry too much about it!

Especially given that the crazy one in charge of Germany ITTL was in charge IOTL. Hitler's time travel exemption act doesn't preclude his being completely bonkerooni. For one it makes WWII a lot less fun

 

[RyuDrago]

I was thinking, in case of protraction of the war, the Anglo-Americans shouldn't move in order to reactivate the French war economy ASAP and the fast buildup of a Transalpine army? With a Anglo-American army in difficulty in Belgium, the French role could become more important...

However, as Italian I'm curious to see how all this situation affected the Italian front... If the Anglo-Americans receded, it could mean some troops maybe could be pulled out the Gothic line?

 

[RosoMC]

I was thinking, in case of protraction of the war, the Anglo-Americans shouldn't move in order to reactivate the French war economy ASAP and the fast buildup of a Transalpine army? With a Anglo-American army in difficulty in Belgium, the French role could become more important...

That's an interesting thought. All of France is liberated by now and there is still manpower in Metropolitan France to be used. Now that WAllies find themselves in dire straits (or at least suffered a setback) maybe they will be more willing to use French recruits.

However, as Italian I'm curious to see how all this situation affected the Italian front... If the Anglo-Americans receded, it could mean some troops maybe could be pulled out the Gothic line?

How many troops/divisions Germans had on the Gothic line?

 

[eltf177]

I've been racking my brains trying to figure out why the Germans would want to buy time for a losing war when both their enemies have a numerical superiority (even if it is not particularly greater in the case of the W-Allies)

Hitler is insane. His reasoning is that if there is no victory then the German people deserve their fate.

 

[RosoMC]

Hitler is insane. His reasoning is that if there is no victory then the German people deserve their fate.

I was under the impression that succesful Ardennes offensive and ITTL chaos in the USA caused by German and Japanese chemical and biological attack were conducted to bring USA and UK to the negotiation table. Of course, as insane as Mr. Hitler is, it probably never occured to him that it will only steel the WAllies resolve to gut Nazi Germany, utterly de-nazify it and let the Soviets have fun with whatever is left.

 

[Tsar of New Zealand]

And if the Anglo-Americans get a million angry Frenchmen mobilised the Germans are really gonna catch it when they lose this war. The Russians may yet have some competitors for brutality against enemy civilians. And the WAllies won't even pretend to bat an eye this time round.

 

[eltf177]

I was under the impression that succesful Ardennes offensive and ITTL chaos in the USA caused by German and Japanese chemical and biological attack were conducted to bring USA and UK to the negotiation table. Of course, as insane as Mr. Hitler is, it probably never occured to him that it will only steel the WAllies resolve to gut Nazi Germany, utterly de-nazify it and let the Soviets have fun with whatever is left.

Exactly. Hitler sees the Japanese attacks as weakening US resolve. If he does the same it further erodes morale and gives Germany a real chance of getting the US and UK out of the war, then Germany's full might can be turned towards Stalin...

 

[Geon]

LA Update

I don't want anyone to think I've forgotten where all of this started. Here is an update from Los Angeles, espcially read the footnotes for a hint of a change in the cultural history.
---------------------------------------

Date: December 22, 1944
Location: Los Angeles (City Hall)
Time: 10:00 a.m.

Mayor Fletcher Bowron sat at his desk waiting for his 10 a.m. appointments with undisguised glee. He was actually feeling more upbeat and happy then he had for over a month.

The situation in Los Angeles was finally improving after over a month of continuous bad news. The number of people still infected was falling each day. There had been no further deaths for several days now and the absentee rate at local war plants was now falling again to the point where regular workers were once again starting to take over from convicts on the assembly lines. A few days ago the army troops assigned to keep order had begun withdrawing to barracks and once more you could see the streets beginning to return to life.

There were still several matters of concern. A large number of people were still infected and were still staying in the improvised hospitals on the Hollywood sound stages and the barracks at Van Nuys as well as the overcrowded city hospitals. Only life-threatening emergencies were being admitted to the hospitals at this point. Also, the LAPD and the LAFD had both been hit hard by the plague. Both would be short of manpower probably until the end of the war.

The city would be footing the bill for this for a long time to come. With tourism down because of the war and the Army restricted to barracks because of the plague the city revenues had plummeted during the last month. And there was no immediate sign they would be picking up any time soon. In addition the “Great Hollywood Bug-Out,” had been a gut-punch to the city’s economy.

Nothing angered Mayor Bowron more then the actions of the studio executives who had been responsible for the exodus out of the city. Oh, the sound stages turned into hospitals had certainly proved invaluable, but that didn’t begin to cover the loss of tax and other revenues generated by the Hollywood community, still even in the midst of the “bug-out,” there had been heroes.

One week after almost every one of the studio personnel from the stars and executives to the chief makeup artists and costume designers had left for the safety of Reno there had been a small revolt, from what Mayor Bowron heard the incident would have been worthy of its own movie. Young Mickey Rooney already very much a major star had quickly grown tired of waiting in a hotel room for the storm to blow over. He had quickly contacted his friend Judy Garland and they had contacted several other actors and actresses. Many of them had gone on USO tours to entertain the troops, now the city they lived in needed them. In a scene right out of one of his old “Andy Hardy,” movies Rooney had said “The folks back there in LA need us right now! I don’t care what the bosses say I’m going back, who’s with me?” The answer was that ten days after the “Bug-out,” 23 actors and actresses had returned to Los Angeles marched right into the Mayor’s office and asked what they could do to help. They had been asked to help with a city’s fading morale. And they had responded as only “true troopers,” could. They had put on several radio concerts for the people of the city, staged two live concerts, and performed in the plague wards for those that were recovering. Mayor Bowron felt a lump in his throat as he remembered one time he had visited the wards and found Judy Garland singing “Over the Rainbow,” to a group of plague victims who had just had the buboes surgically removed and were in a lot of pain. After the performance he had taken Judy Garland aside and kissed her gently on the cheek, thanking her profusely for all she had done.*

All of the actors who had returned deserved a medal for what they had done for the city. In fact, the mayor was planning a parade on New Year’s Day to honor the “stars that came back.*”

However, Mayor Bowron was actually thinking more now of the upcoming appointment he had with the studio executives. They had deserted the sinking ship and now were coming back expecting things to be the same when they brought the rest of their personnel back, they said in another month when things calmed down.

It wasn’t going to be that easy. Mayor Bowron knew there were many in Los Angeles still on the city council that had never liked the “Hollywood crowd,” in the first place. The “Bug-Out,” had given these people fresh ammunition to demand that if these damn movie people wanted to leave when the going was rough and run off to Reno fine-let Nevada deal with them and tell them good riddance they should not be welcome back here. Mayor Bowron knew that kicking the film community out wasn’t an answer. It would only hurt Los Angeles in the long run.

But that didn’t mean the executives of the major studios could just waltz back into Los Angeles and expect things would be all honky dory. There were going to be new concessions and conditions placed on the studios. Not so much to hurt the stars but to hurt the executives. The studios would find that doing business in Los Angeles would still be lucrative but Los Angeles would be demanding a larger piece of the pie. If the executives insisted on taking their business elsewhere, the mayor would hold the door for them as they left. He didn’t think they would leave though. They had too much invested here. It was time to squeeze the golden goose of Hollywood a little tighter.

Mayor Bowron’s secretary told him the executives had arrived. He quickly had them shown in. As they entered Fletcher Bowron flashed a smile at them that as one of the executives would later say looked like that of a wolf as he stalked a helpless sheep.

* Judy Garland would write later in My Song, My Story, her autobiography that this period marked the end of her slide into using drugs and alcohol. It also began a lifelong love affair for her with Los Angeles. She would continue her acting career well into the 1950’s with Judgment at Nuremburg. And she would later play Judy Fairfax, in a long running TV sitcom called simply “Judy.” In addition she would be elected to serve on the Los Angeles City Council for two terms. For her actions during the Los Angeles Outbreak she would receive numerous honors including the Medal of Merit and the Congressional Gold Medal. When she died in 1989 of a heart attack she would be mourned by her fans and the citizens of Los Angeles.

* It would be first of many honors. The return of the 23 actors to Los Angeles to help morale would be honored in many ways. In 1950 the musical comedy drama film Bug Out would win an Academy Award for Best Picture for that year, with several of the stars reprising their real life roles. Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland would each get an Oscar as well for Best Actor and Best Supporting Actress. In addition to numerous awards from the city both Mr. Rooney and Ms. Garland would also receive the Congressional Gold Medal, as would many of the other actors who chose to return.

 

[eltf177]

But that didn’t mean the executives of the major studios could just waltz back into Los Angeles and expect things would be all honky dory. There were going to be new concessions and conditions placed on the studios. Not so much to hurt the stars but to hurt the executives. The studios would find that doing business in Los Angeles would still be lucrative but Los Angeles would be demanding a larger piece of the pie. If the executives insisted on taking their business elsewhere, the mayor would hold the door for them as they left. He didn’t think they would leave though. They had too much invested here. It was time to squeeze the golden goose of Hollywood a little tighter.

Exactly what I said was going to happen many many pages ago, the studio execs are going to be reminded that they no longer have the same clout they did before.

And it couldn't happen to a bigger bunch of narssistic jerks...

 

[Shadow Hawk]

The Medal of Honor is a military award, for going "Above and Beyond the call of Duty". Surely Mr. Rooney and Ms. Garland would recieve a civilian award?

Quick research shows the Medel of Merit was awarded to civilians in WW2...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal_for_Merit

Better still, Congressional Gold Medal...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Gold_Medal