How Silent Fall the Cherry Blossoms
- Thread starter Geon
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Oh. I thought the U.S. was hitting Japan solely from Saipan and the like.
Other problem is that prior to the surrender broadcast the ordinary citizens of Japan had never heard the Emperor speak; all too easy for any coup plotters to denounce any such broadcasts and orders issued as fakes; after all the Emperor would never sanction surrender!
No one even mentioned MacArthur's near apoplectic stroke!
Geon
Only useful if it removes him completely.
I think everytime I read this thread from now on I'll have this playing in the background as it seems very appropriate. Hirohito is certainly going to be seen in a better light ITTL given that he's risking his life here.
Just two little nitpicks Geon, in Britain the Foreign Ministry is called The Foreign Office and Eden's official title should be Foreign Secretary rather than Minister. Otherwise another superb set of updates!
Just two little nitpicks Geon, in Britain the Foreign Ministry is called The Foreign Office and Eden's official title should be Foreign Secretary rather than Minister. Otherwise another superb set of updates!
IMHO it is unlikely the allies would have allowed the USSR to sit in on this. At this point in time the USSR was not at war with Japan, still carried on some trade with them, and in fact interned any US pilots who came down in the USSR (and confiscated B-29's that landed there for mechanical reasons for reverse engineering). Furthermore Stalin had not yet agreed to enter the war against Japan, which he did later saying it would be at least 3 months after Germany surrendered (and he demanded some "goodies" as well as price for entering).
In any case, the Russians are very heavily engaged against Germany still in fall 1944 and can't mount an offensive against the Kwantung Army, even as reduced as it is, without stealing from the war in the west. Since beating Germany and acquiring territory/buffer states in Eastern Europe was the number one priority for Stalin, a Japanese surrender or partial collapse in the near future won't allow them to grab much if anything compared to OTL.
I can see the USA (and some UK forces) penetrating more deeply in to China during war or raids or after surrender to get at the location of Unit 731. This may have knock on effects with Chiang vs Mao.
In any case, the Russians are very heavily engaged against Germany still in fall 1944 and can't mount an offensive against the Kwantung Army, even as reduced as it is, without stealing from the war in the west. Since beating Germany and acquiring territory/buffer states in Eastern Europe was the number one priority for Stalin, a Japanese surrender or partial collapse in the near future won't allow them to grab much if anything compared to OTL.
I can see the USA (and some UK forces) penetrating more deeply in to China during war or raids or after surrender to get at the location of Unit 731. This may have knock on effects with Chiang vs Mao.
You are forgetting that US was trying very hard during this period to bring the USSR into the war with Japan; given that they knew about the Portuguese mission it would have created serious diplomatic problems to keep the Soviets out and the US wouldn't gain anything by doing so.
katchen
Banned
Quite believable. Not only is this believable in terms of Hirohito's behavior IOTL, but while Japanese Tennos have never betrayed factions to a foreign enemy or faction before, I am pretty sure that there is ample precedent for Japanese tennos betraying one daimyo to another daimyo and setting a daimyo who is out of favor up for the slaughter. What Hirohito is doing amounts to the same thing.
Wonderful climax in this TL, Geon
Would be Ironic if US Bomber bomb the Unit 731 site, with British Anthrax ?
Noch 22 Tage bis "Unternehmen Die Wacht am Rhein" und "Unternehmen Trojanischer Sieg".
Would be Ironic if US Bomber bomb the Unit 731 site, with British Anthrax ?
Noch 22 Tage bis "Unternehmen Die Wacht am Rhein" und "Unternehmen Trojanischer Sieg".
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Could be tricky...the US bombing effort from China did not go well, to put it very kindly. Most of the sorties were carrying gas and bombs over "The Hump" to build up enough of a reserve at Chengdu for a smallish raid of 50 or 60 planes, which took IIRC a couple weeks. It's not something I'd want to count on, and the B-29 is not a precision weapon to put it mildly.
(EDIT: But in fairness I should note that in November '44 there still *were* some B-29s in the CBI theater, so you could try it. I just don't think it'd work.)
Hm...then again, neither was the Lancaster. Perhaps, since the British are already in on the secret, they could have Mr. Barnes Wallis whip up a little something special for Ishii and his boys? >:-D
As for hitting War Cabinet meetings on the Home Islands, B-29s are probably too imprecise and if the Cabinet goes into a bomb shelter it becomes very difficult to guarantee their deaths. What I'd do is have a specially trained force of fighter bombers, either P-51s or carrier-based F4Us, go in at low altitude while a B-29 raid hit a nearby city to confuse the Japanese air defenses.
katchen
Banned
I hope that we will see either Roosevelt or Truman build on this emergency and pass Medicare for everyone during this wartime emergency. If this public health crisis has proven one thing, it is that infectious disease does not care about the color of it's victim's skin. This needs to be built upon one way or another even if a filibuster must be broken. (And if the Southern filibuster cannot be broken, use Presidential executive powers to physicially relocate all African-American people out of the Southern states to relocation camps near northern and western cities "to work in defense plants" and saying something like "if the South continues to insist that it has the right to let it's Negro citizens die of curable diseases, I have the right to use the powers vested in me to resettle those Negro citizens out of harms way before their sons return home from defending this country".
. It can be done within 6 months and if a coalition of Southern Democrats and Republicans emerges to block this move, Northern Democratic Senators concerned about keeping their seats can fiibuster in reverse to prevent it. Northern districts get a larger supply of African-American families reuniting with returning GIs who will not face discrimination in GI benefits if their families have been relocated out of the South. And the South will be punished for it's intransigence by losing it's ready supply of cheap near-slave labor, have to mechanize it's cotton growing quickly or grow soybeans or depend on the Federal Government for approval for Mexican migrant "bracero" labor--a humiliating experience for proud, xenophobic, Southern whites. And Southern factory owners will not be able to play on racial tensions when union organizers come around.
While all adult African Americans now that they have been relocated will be able to vote--Democrat--and help Democrats stave off a Republican resurgence in the North.
All this , building upon a Southern refusal to permit tax dollars to be used for Medical care for African-Americans in the face of a clear and present public health danger that foreshadows other clear and present public health dangers.
. It can be done within 6 months and if a coalition of Southern Democrats and Republicans emerges to block this move, Northern Democratic Senators concerned about keeping their seats can fiibuster in reverse to prevent it. Northern districts get a larger supply of African-American families reuniting with returning GIs who will not face discrimination in GI benefits if their families have been relocated out of the South. And the South will be punished for it's intransigence by losing it's ready supply of cheap near-slave labor, have to mechanize it's cotton growing quickly or grow soybeans or depend on the Federal Government for approval for Mexican migrant "bracero" labor--a humiliating experience for proud, xenophobic, Southern whites. And Southern factory owners will not be able to play on racial tensions when union organizers come around.
While all adult African Americans now that they have been relocated will be able to vote--Democrat--and help Democrats stave off a Republican resurgence in the North.
All this , building upon a Southern refusal to permit tax dollars to be used for Medical care for African-Americans in the face of a clear and present public health danger that foreshadows other clear and present public health dangers.
Is this true? The Democrat party controlled the south (Dixiecrats - all because Lincoln was a Republican), and that hold was only broken when the Democrats supported the Civil Rights movement in the 1960s. I'd suspect this is incorrect on two counts:
1) The Black voters of the period might well vote Republican
2) The Dixiecrats would freak out. Roosevelt **might** have the political strength to deal with them, Truman won't.
Incidentally, what makes you think these people will want to be relocated? They own property, they have a community, their friends are all local, etc. They'll pretty much lose everything if moved, all for some fairly narrow political advantage accruing to someone else.
Great update, two nitpicks, given the time that the Portuguese ambassador has taken to deliver the briefcase are the dates still valid. Also, is there some form of code to inform Hirohito of when the Allies will bomb so that his faction can keep away from the war cabinet, it might look a tad suspiscious if they keep not attending?
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