Lost Freeway
Banned
Praise the Lord!
Also, what about the Iowa-class battleships? Did any of them serve beyond WW2? I know the war ended before the latter two reached the front line.
How Silent Fall the Cherry Blossoms
- Thread starter Geon
- Start date
- Status
Praise the Lord!
Also, what about the Iowa-class battleships? Did any of them serve beyond WW2? I know the war ended before the latter two reached the front line.
Given in this TL the city of Hiroshima wasn't destroyed by an atomic bomb, I wonder what would the city look like in this TL's 2016?
Here's my guess: it would look like how a smaller version of how Tokyo rebuilt after World War II, since it's likely Hiroshima was probably subject to the same firebomb raids that destroyed Tokyo. However, the city will still have an extensive tram system because the soil beneath the city is too soft to build a subway system.
Here's my guess: it would look like how a smaller version of how Tokyo rebuilt after World War II, since it's likely Hiroshima was probably subject to the same firebomb raids that destroyed Tokyo. However, the city will still have an extensive tram system because the soil beneath the city is too soft to build a subway system.
Lost Freeway
Banned
Another thing: how would naval doctrine be affected by no Operation Ten-Go? IOTL, the sinking of Yamato was the final nail in the coffin of the battleship.
Remember, Japan surrendered some two months earlier than the time of the invasion of Okinawa in the OTL. As such, it's likely that Okinawa would be spared, but as part of the surrender terms, the island may still end up in Allied hands for use as a military base because of the threat of the Soviet Union and the Manchurian People's Republic.
As we saw in this TL, Yamato was still sitting in Kure at the time of the surrender, and as such was captured intact.
Geon
Donor
Lost Freeway
As to your question naval doctrine, it is likely aircraft carriers still carry the day as far as the naval tactical/strategic doctrine goes. My assessment is that there will still be some holdouts (like Halsey who as you will recall captained the Yamato to Pearl) who will see the day of the Battleship as far from over. But most who review objectively the World War II Pacific Campaign will see that airpower was a very significant force.
As a side note remember, the bacilli delivered to Los Angeles were delivered by submarine aircraft carriers. I would not be surprised if somewhere along the line someone would consider using the I-400 design again.
Geon
As to your question naval doctrine, it is likely aircraft carriers still carry the day as far as the naval tactical/strategic doctrine goes. My assessment is that there will still be some holdouts (like Halsey who as you will recall captained the Yamato to Pearl) who will see the day of the Battleship as far from over. But most who review objectively the World War II Pacific Campaign will see that airpower was a very significant force.
As a side note remember, the bacilli delivered to Los Angeles were delivered by submarine aircraft carriers. I would not be surprised if somewhere along the line someone would consider using the I-400 design again.
Geon
Geon
Donor
Like an old friend I find I cannot stay away from this story. I promised all of you two postscripts a while back and here is the first. I hope you enjoy it! I hope it isn't too cloying.
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Postscript #1 – Marlene
Her service in World War II made the name of Marlene Dietrich beloved among U.S. servicemen around the world. The time she spent in the hospital at Metz during the Battle of the Bulge would have an especially very telling effect on her future career. Ms. Dietrich would come to donate more and more time to entertaining U.S. soldiers throughout the world especially during the Korean conflict. She would often make surprise visits at remote U.S. bases and entertain the troops there always offering to take personal messages back to families in the States. A sizable percentage of the profits from the concerts, recordings, and films she made would be forwarded to organizations that aided wounded veterans returning home. For all of this she would not only earn many plaudits and honors from the U.S., the UK, and France. Yet through her life there was always an image that haunted her. The image of a dying young soldier whose hand she had held in the Metz hospital. (From Marlene; a Biography)
Marlene Dietrich lay on her bed finishing reading for the hundredth time the biography written about her barely seven years ago. It was the only authorized biography of her life, and even though there were times she regretted she had ever allowed it to be written. better a definitive biography about her life that she had some control over rather than some of those “smear jobs”, there was no kinder word for them that had been written by so many “biographers” about some of her friends. She had told the author, “I want the facts to be known. As they said on that TV show, ‘just the facts.’ Let others make of those facts what they will but at least whatever they will make up there will be one true account they won’t be able to contradict!”
The great actress and humanitarian was dying of renal failure. Today had been one of the good days when she had experienced little pain and even felt well enough to take in a little juice and a slice of toast. She rarely wanted any nourishment these days. She had also felt enough energy to sit up for most of the evening re-reading her biography.
As she lay in bed with some of her friends occasionally coming in from the other room to check on her she thought back to an image that had constantly stayed with her these past 48 years. It was the image of that dying soldier she had sat beside in the Metz military hospital so long ago.
The image of that poor young man dying, so young, with so much of his life ahead of him had convinced Marlene of the utter stupidity and waste of war. It had also been one more confirmation to her of the complete bestiality, there was no other word for it of the Nazi system. In the years that followed the collapse of Nazi Germany Marlene Dietrich had with the aid of legendary director/producer Frank Capra done a series of denazification films entitled A Nation Betrayed. Patterned after the famous Why We Fight film series, A Nation Betrayed was meant to show how the German nation had been betrayed by evil, greedy, and power mad individuals into starting another war which had ended in the division of that nation.
The film, was voiced over by Ms. Dietrich in German, but she would later dub an English version of the film. She felt Americans too needed to understand what had happened to Germany and as a warning to remain vigilant. Marlene did not blame all Germans for the horrific acts of the Nazis, but she did blame them for not resisting the policies that the Nazis had implemented.
She had sent a letter signed by several expatriate German actors and actresses in Hollywood including Peter Lorre and Eric von Stroheim to President Truman asking him not to agree to the Partition Sanctions, and pointing out how Japan, who had caused more deaths on American soil with Operation Silent Cherry Blossom then Germany had with Operation Trojan Victory was being treated with a far lighter hand then Germany was.
Sadly, the pleas of her and her fellow performers had been ignored.
But Marlene was not one to back down easily. From 1956 until her health had started to fail she had participated in one of the many “silent marches” throughout the eight German states. And she often spoke of her hope that one day the German nation would be one, be whole, and this time be democratic.
The news seemed good in that regard. Recently, the eight German states had been allowed to form an economic union and there were hopes that one day in a few years they might be allowed to consider political unity as well. She hoped and prayed that day would be soon even if she would never live to see it.
Marlene felt tired. She closed her eyes and felt herself drifting off. She knew she didn’t have much time left. Earlier in the day she had spent two hours with her priest and confessor and had asked him to let her have communion. He had readily obliged. The Catholic faith she had embraced some years ago had been a great comfort to her. Now as she drifted off her mind wandered back to that Metz hospital and that young man.
The world around her grew dark then began to brighten again. She found herself in a beautiful dress such as one would wear to a fancy dance party or a ball walking down a sidewalk next to a high wall. Ahead of her was a lamppost next to the entrance to – wherever this place was. And leaning against the lamppost casually was a young man, in his 20’s wearing the khakis of the U.S army with sandy brown hair singing.
Off the lands of silence, off the earthly ground
in a dream it lifts me, your kiss leaves me astound
When the mist of night swirls into reign
There by the lantern I will be again
Like then, Lili Marlene
Like then, Lili Marlene*
It was him! For a moment Marlene didn’t know what to say. The last time she had seen this young man he had been a broken shell lying in that hospital at Metz. But here he was looking in the peak of health! What? Was this a dream?
The young man (his first name was Stuart) stopped singing and looked up at her and smiled. “Ms. Dietrich,” he said, “You said to wait for you by the lantern until you came, well ma’am I hope you don’t mind but I decided to take you at your word. I’d be mighty happy if you’d let me escort you into the festivities.” “Stuart, I would be delighted,” said Marlene, and noticed that she was once more the radiant beauty she had been in the 40’s.
Stuart extended his arm and Marlene took it. And as they passed through the gates Marlene felt a sense of joy and completion. Even as far away her body contentedly breathed its last.
* These are the English translation of the German song “Lilli Marlene,” by Marlene Dietrich from http://lyricstranslate.com/en/lili-marleen-lili-marlene.html
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Postscript #1 – Marlene
Her service in World War II made the name of Marlene Dietrich beloved among U.S. servicemen around the world. The time she spent in the hospital at Metz during the Battle of the Bulge would have an especially very telling effect on her future career. Ms. Dietrich would come to donate more and more time to entertaining U.S. soldiers throughout the world especially during the Korean conflict. She would often make surprise visits at remote U.S. bases and entertain the troops there always offering to take personal messages back to families in the States. A sizable percentage of the profits from the concerts, recordings, and films she made would be forwarded to organizations that aided wounded veterans returning home. For all of this she would not only earn many plaudits and honors from the U.S., the UK, and France. Yet through her life there was always an image that haunted her. The image of a dying young soldier whose hand she had held in the Metz hospital. (From Marlene; a Biography)
Date: May 6, 1992
Location: An apartment in Paris
Time: A little after midnight
Location: An apartment in Paris
Time: A little after midnight
Marlene Dietrich lay on her bed finishing reading for the hundredth time the biography written about her barely seven years ago. It was the only authorized biography of her life, and even though there were times she regretted she had ever allowed it to be written. better a definitive biography about her life that she had some control over rather than some of those “smear jobs”, there was no kinder word for them that had been written by so many “biographers” about some of her friends. She had told the author, “I want the facts to be known. As they said on that TV show, ‘just the facts.’ Let others make of those facts what they will but at least whatever they will make up there will be one true account they won’t be able to contradict!”
The great actress and humanitarian was dying of renal failure. Today had been one of the good days when she had experienced little pain and even felt well enough to take in a little juice and a slice of toast. She rarely wanted any nourishment these days. She had also felt enough energy to sit up for most of the evening re-reading her biography.
As she lay in bed with some of her friends occasionally coming in from the other room to check on her she thought back to an image that had constantly stayed with her these past 48 years. It was the image of that dying soldier she had sat beside in the Metz military hospital so long ago.
The image of that poor young man dying, so young, with so much of his life ahead of him had convinced Marlene of the utter stupidity and waste of war. It had also been one more confirmation to her of the complete bestiality, there was no other word for it of the Nazi system. In the years that followed the collapse of Nazi Germany Marlene Dietrich had with the aid of legendary director/producer Frank Capra done a series of denazification films entitled A Nation Betrayed. Patterned after the famous Why We Fight film series, A Nation Betrayed was meant to show how the German nation had been betrayed by evil, greedy, and power mad individuals into starting another war which had ended in the division of that nation.
The film, was voiced over by Ms. Dietrich in German, but she would later dub an English version of the film. She felt Americans too needed to understand what had happened to Germany and as a warning to remain vigilant. Marlene did not blame all Germans for the horrific acts of the Nazis, but she did blame them for not resisting the policies that the Nazis had implemented.
She had sent a letter signed by several expatriate German actors and actresses in Hollywood including Peter Lorre and Eric von Stroheim to President Truman asking him not to agree to the Partition Sanctions, and pointing out how Japan, who had caused more deaths on American soil with Operation Silent Cherry Blossom then Germany had with Operation Trojan Victory was being treated with a far lighter hand then Germany was.
Sadly, the pleas of her and her fellow performers had been ignored.
But Marlene was not one to back down easily. From 1956 until her health had started to fail she had participated in one of the many “silent marches” throughout the eight German states. And she often spoke of her hope that one day the German nation would be one, be whole, and this time be democratic.
The news seemed good in that regard. Recently, the eight German states had been allowed to form an economic union and there were hopes that one day in a few years they might be allowed to consider political unity as well. She hoped and prayed that day would be soon even if she would never live to see it.
Marlene felt tired. She closed her eyes and felt herself drifting off. She knew she didn’t have much time left. Earlier in the day she had spent two hours with her priest and confessor and had asked him to let her have communion. He had readily obliged. The Catholic faith she had embraced some years ago had been a great comfort to her. Now as she drifted off her mind wandered back to that Metz hospital and that young man.
The world around her grew dark then began to brighten again. She found herself in a beautiful dress such as one would wear to a fancy dance party or a ball walking down a sidewalk next to a high wall. Ahead of her was a lamppost next to the entrance to – wherever this place was. And leaning against the lamppost casually was a young man, in his 20’s wearing the khakis of the U.S army with sandy brown hair singing.
Off the lands of silence, off the earthly ground
in a dream it lifts me, your kiss leaves me astound
When the mist of night swirls into reign
There by the lantern I will be again
Like then, Lili Marlene
Like then, Lili Marlene*
It was him! For a moment Marlene didn’t know what to say. The last time she had seen this young man he had been a broken shell lying in that hospital at Metz. But here he was looking in the peak of health! What? Was this a dream?
The young man (his first name was Stuart) stopped singing and looked up at her and smiled. “Ms. Dietrich,” he said, “You said to wait for you by the lantern until you came, well ma’am I hope you don’t mind but I decided to take you at your word. I’d be mighty happy if you’d let me escort you into the festivities.” “Stuart, I would be delighted,” said Marlene, and noticed that she was once more the radiant beauty she had been in the 40’s.
Stuart extended his arm and Marlene took it. And as they passed through the gates Marlene felt a sense of joy and completion. Even as far away her body contentedly breathed its last.
* These are the English translation of the German song “Lilli Marlene,” by Marlene Dietrich from http://lyricstranslate.com/en/lili-marleen-lili-marlene.html
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stirlingdraka
Donor
A lovely first postscript Geon. The hints of the eight German states were very interesting I hope Marlene`s dream of a united democratic Germany happens in TTL.
Beautiful update. Now, onto re-reading the entire thing, since it's been so long...
Marc A
Marc A
Geon
Donor
stirlingdraka
The German states do reunite as a result of the silent march mentioned above. It's mentioned earlier in my TL. And it was one of the more - controversial aspects of the TL.
stirlingdraka
Donor
Thanks for answering Geon. I must have forgotten I do need to re-read this TL again.
I like this TL and even read regular, because it so good written
i updated the Wikipage of TL
http://wiki.alternatehistory.com/doku.php?id=timelines:how_silent_fall_the_cherry_blossoms#chapters
oh Post 196 Postscript #1 – Marlene
is really Postscript #2, the first is about the fate of Yamato battleship
Good work Geon
you are 4 post away from number 200 !
i updated the Wikipage of TL
http://wiki.alternatehistory.com/doku.php?id=timelines:how_silent_fall_the_cherry_blossoms#chapters
oh Post 196 Postscript #1 – Marlene
is really Postscript #2, the first is about the fate of Yamato battleship
Good work Geon
you are 4 post away from number 200 !
Geon
Donor
The following is part one of a spin-off story for "How Silent..." But I thought it fitting it stay on this thread. First some explanation. I am a fan of the circus. A BIG fan! That was partially the reason for my coming up with this. I will fully admit this is letting my imagination go to the nth degree. So, if you think this is too corny please feel free to ignore it. But I wanted to see if I could make a group of realistic but colorful heroes for the civil rights movement. Also considering that now (2/2/2017) Ringling Bros. Circus is coming to an end, consider this my tribute to a show I marveled at on TV as a child. So without further ado may I present the beginning of....
A notable and well known example occurred in 1951 in Georgia. Near Athens a KKK rally had started and was in full swing leading up to the burning of the cross when a caravan of cars approached. The members of the group prepared for possible trouble only to be “shocked out of their socks,” as one member would say later to discover the cars were full of people from both sides of the color barrier from nearby churches. Among the people there were several GI’s just returned from the war wearing their uniforms. One of the pastors, an elderly gentleman spoke up and said, “Please don’t be alarmed, we’re not here to cause any trouble. But we just want you to look at some of these men with us. Some of them served with some of you during the war. Maybe your paths never crossed but you are both Americans. We simply want you to know that we are not your enemy. That’s all we have to say. If you want us to stay, we’ll stay, if you want us to go, just say the word.” For several minutes nobody spoke on either side. The ball was in the court of the KKK. Then something incredible happened, one of the members of that organization removed his hood and walked forward. He stopped in front of one of the men the pastor had pointed to and asked him where he had served. The two started talking. Others began to follow the man’s example. Within a matter of minutes people were talking in small groups. The discussions lasted long into the night. It was the beginning of the transformation of this particular group of the KKK. (from Birth of the Civil Rights Movement – How Silent Fall the Cherry Blossoms
History is made up of unlikely heroes and none could be more unlikely then the management and performers of the Stars and Bars Circus and Thrill Show who entertained throughout the country from 1955 through 1970.
The show had its origins in the incident mentioned above when a group of veterans and members of local churches in Athens, Georgia joined together and in a peaceful confrontation cause a local branch of the KKK to disband. This peaceful confrontation was one of several that occurred throughout the South during the 50’s and 60’s following the simple example of Daryl Cleaver and his mercy train.
After the incident mentioned above this particular chapter of the KKK would begin a strange and wonderful metamorphosis. While some of those in the group would eventually resume their activities the majority of the group started meeting with the people they had met that night for prayer groups and discussions.
One of those which joined this group was a Mr. Joshua Peterson* (all names marked with an asterisk are fictional). Mr. Peterson attended several of the discussions and prayer groups for a year. Having been only a half-hearted member of the KKK to begin with Mr. Peterson took a good hard look at his beliefs. He had developed a friendship with one of the veterans at the initial meeting, who had been a tank driver during the war. Both men discovered they had a passion for driving fast cars and seeing how much they could do with them. A friendship quickly blossomed between the two men.
That friendship developed into something more as Joshua suggested the two try their hand at some “thrill driving”. “Thrill drivers” were at the time becoming popular at local county fairs and carnivals. Joshua thought at the time it might be fun to put together an act. His friend Bruce Aniston* agreed.
Over the next year the two put together an act which they thought would be entertaining. Driving their two heavily modified cars around a dirt track at break neck speed they would jump over one another via ramps, do dangerous tricks weaving in front of one another and finally a double jump over three school buses laid end to end. Their act premiered at a local county fair in Georgia in the fall of 1952. It was a hit with the crowds. Seeing how popular they were the two set about honing the particulars of their act.
About the same time Alex Naughton*, another member of the group the veterans and church leaders confronted started perfecting his skills. Naughton was an amateur juggler, a little talent he had picked up in the navy during the long hours on a navy transport ship. Like Joshua, Alex had never been totally committed to the racist ideology of the KKK. He would say later, “The visit by those folks that night was like a bucket of cold water in the face. I realized I had been going down the wrong road.” Alex found people liked to watch him juggle. So, in 1952 Alex started doing performances around the area in retirement homes (both black and white), in schools of both white and black, and at local sporting events. Alex had a charming personality and won over many hearts and quieted many disapproving stares.
At one local event in 1953 Alex would find himself teaming up with Joshua Peterson and Bruce Aniston. Alex would be the act to lead before the team of Aniston and Peterson took to the track. As a climax to the act Alex stood in the middle of the track juggling torches even as Joshua and Bruce swerved around him.
The crowd greatly enjoyed the trio. So much so that Joshua suggested to Alex that he join their show. Alex agreed. The trio would form the nucleus of a southern circus that would not only entertain but would touch the conscience of many throughout the nation.
The Stars and Bars Circus and Thrill Show
An addendum to “How Silent Fall the Cherry Blossoms” by Geon
A notable and well known example occurred in 1951 in Georgia. Near Athens a KKK rally had started and was in full swing leading up to the burning of the cross when a caravan of cars approached. The members of the group prepared for possible trouble only to be “shocked out of their socks,” as one member would say later to discover the cars were full of people from both sides of the color barrier from nearby churches. Among the people there were several GI’s just returned from the war wearing their uniforms. One of the pastors, an elderly gentleman spoke up and said, “Please don’t be alarmed, we’re not here to cause any trouble. But we just want you to look at some of these men with us. Some of them served with some of you during the war. Maybe your paths never crossed but you are both Americans. We simply want you to know that we are not your enemy. That’s all we have to say. If you want us to stay, we’ll stay, if you want us to go, just say the word.” For several minutes nobody spoke on either side. The ball was in the court of the KKK. Then something incredible happened, one of the members of that organization removed his hood and walked forward. He stopped in front of one of the men the pastor had pointed to and asked him where he had served. The two started talking. Others began to follow the man’s example. Within a matter of minutes people were talking in small groups. The discussions lasted long into the night. It was the beginning of the transformation of this particular group of the KKK. (from Birth of the Civil Rights Movement – How Silent Fall the Cherry Blossoms
History is made up of unlikely heroes and none could be more unlikely then the management and performers of the Stars and Bars Circus and Thrill Show who entertained throughout the country from 1955 through 1970.
The show had its origins in the incident mentioned above when a group of veterans and members of local churches in Athens, Georgia joined together and in a peaceful confrontation cause a local branch of the KKK to disband. This peaceful confrontation was one of several that occurred throughout the South during the 50’s and 60’s following the simple example of Daryl Cleaver and his mercy train.
After the incident mentioned above this particular chapter of the KKK would begin a strange and wonderful metamorphosis. While some of those in the group would eventually resume their activities the majority of the group started meeting with the people they had met that night for prayer groups and discussions.
One of those which joined this group was a Mr. Joshua Peterson* (all names marked with an asterisk are fictional). Mr. Peterson attended several of the discussions and prayer groups for a year. Having been only a half-hearted member of the KKK to begin with Mr. Peterson took a good hard look at his beliefs. He had developed a friendship with one of the veterans at the initial meeting, who had been a tank driver during the war. Both men discovered they had a passion for driving fast cars and seeing how much they could do with them. A friendship quickly blossomed between the two men.
That friendship developed into something more as Joshua suggested the two try their hand at some “thrill driving”. “Thrill drivers” were at the time becoming popular at local county fairs and carnivals. Joshua thought at the time it might be fun to put together an act. His friend Bruce Aniston* agreed.
Over the next year the two put together an act which they thought would be entertaining. Driving their two heavily modified cars around a dirt track at break neck speed they would jump over one another via ramps, do dangerous tricks weaving in front of one another and finally a double jump over three school buses laid end to end. Their act premiered at a local county fair in Georgia in the fall of 1952. It was a hit with the crowds. Seeing how popular they were the two set about honing the particulars of their act.
About the same time Alex Naughton*, another member of the group the veterans and church leaders confronted started perfecting his skills. Naughton was an amateur juggler, a little talent he had picked up in the navy during the long hours on a navy transport ship. Like Joshua, Alex had never been totally committed to the racist ideology of the KKK. He would say later, “The visit by those folks that night was like a bucket of cold water in the face. I realized I had been going down the wrong road.” Alex found people liked to watch him juggle. So, in 1952 Alex started doing performances around the area in retirement homes (both black and white), in schools of both white and black, and at local sporting events. Alex had a charming personality and won over many hearts and quieted many disapproving stares.
At one local event in 1953 Alex would find himself teaming up with Joshua Peterson and Bruce Aniston. Alex would be the act to lead before the team of Aniston and Peterson took to the track. As a climax to the act Alex stood in the middle of the track juggling torches even as Joshua and Bruce swerved around him.
The crowd greatly enjoyed the trio. So much so that Joshua suggested to Alex that he join their show. Alex agreed. The trio would form the nucleus of a southern circus that would not only entertain but would touch the conscience of many throughout the nation.
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