How Silent Fall the Cherry Blossoms

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Otis R. Needleman

Banned
lukedalton said:
From what i read, part are 'sleepers' and they will forge the next gen of nazi so to form their version of RAF, but another is akin to the 'werewolf' and they will begin insurgency almost immediately.
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The insurgency may start, but they will be crushed by the Allies. And the "redoubt" will be discovered. Even if you kill everyone who worked on it, there will be people in the area who know of some sort of construction. Given sufficient incentive, someone will tell the Allies about it.

The occupation of Germany, at least by the Western Allies, OTL was fairly mild. This occupation will be a lot harsher. The occupation forces won't put up with any shit from the local population.
 

sloreck

The occupation of Germany is going to be much, much rougher than OTL. It may be hard to believe but the infrastructure of Germany is even more trashed than OTL so that makes life more difficult. If possible, the Soviet Zone will be even nastier than OTL, and the western allies are going to be way less tolerant than OTL. "Action" groups are going to be dealt with harshly, and insurgents can only survive if the population is behind them - and when you find villages/neighborhoods flattened in retaliation, rations cut or even more tightly controlled etc very quickly you'll see civilian support (if any) for these "insurgents" fade an be replaced with hostility. As far as the units that will inculcate a rebirth of Nazism - forget it. Even 10-15 years any attempt by the Germans to bring back the NSDAP or some incarnation of it will be stomped down hard.

As far as this "treasure trove" of Nazi stuff - if it is totally secret nobody will find it, if there are clues or anyone knows the secret will out. Of course, it will be hard to keep this secret - just too big.
 

sharlin

Banned
I'm thinking that the WAliies are looking seriously at the Montegeau plan and even some of them might consider it to be 'getting off lightly' after this.

One also has to wonder if Little Boy and Fat Man will come a calling. Berlin and Hitlers mountain side stronghold seem obvious targets.
 

katchen

Banned
NHBL said:
This could seriously cripple any sort of future rules concerning how warfare is conducted. All the treaties intended to prevent these weapons from being used were ignored in the end--so would anyone be willing to consider any sort of non-proliferation treaty in the nuclear age?

Oh--to make this truely a BAD future, have Germany defeated before the nuclear weapons are available. That could mean that, in the next war, the mentality is that they are just a BIG bomb...and less cruel than gas or biowarfare...
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Yes indeed. Having never actually been used, nuclear bombs will be seen as super thermobaric bombs---until they are used a few times and radiation effects become apparent. From that point, it's difficult to say. :(:confused:
If anything will give people pause about chemical weapons, it will be when the long term effects of exposure to organophosphates begin to show up in returning GIs and gassed civilians. That is unless the US government decides to stonewall and deny that those effects have anything to do with organophosphates. Aside from the military, Dow Chemical and Ortho have a vested interest in their pesticides being considered safe. Interesting butterflies and controversy about that postwar!:(:(
 

Garrison

Donor
sharlin said:
I'm thinking that the WAliies are looking seriously at the Montegeau plan and even some of them might consider it to be 'getting off lightly' after this.

One also has to wonder if Little Boy and Fat Man will come a calling. Berlin and Hitlers mountain side stronghold seem obvious targets.
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Geon mentioned in a earlier post that a couple of German cities have been 'reserved' in the same way Hiroshima was.
 

sharlin

Banned
Linz is an odd target, I would have thought that Berlin would have made a more obvious one, unless its purely symbolic with it being the place where Hitler spent his childhood, whilst Nurenburg makes sense again as another symbolic target.
 

RamscoopRaider

Donor
sharlin said:
Linz is an odd target, I would have thought that Berlin would have made a more obvious one, unless its purely symbolic with it being the place where Hitler spent his childhood, whilst Nurenburg makes sense again as another symbolic target.
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I'm fairly sure Geon mentioned it as being a symbolic target
 

Geon

Donor
Zhukov on Oder

Zhukov is on the Oder and things are not as they seem in Berlin!
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: April 15, 1945
Location: The Oder River
Time: 7:00 a.m.

Georgy Zhukov was looking at the casualty reports in his new HQ near the Oder and was not a happy man. The Germans had fought with a fanaticism that none of the Soviet Army had seen before. However they recognized it too well. It was the same sort of fanaticism that had fueled Russian resistance through the three years that the Germans had been on Soviet soil.

The Germans were contending for every small burg and farmhouse along the way, and the worst were these SS troops, they fought with no quarter being asked or given and had to be killed to the last man. His troops had already paid a very high price in blood to get this far and they still had the final push to Berlin. Stalin was adamant that Berlin was to be in Russian hands by the 1st of May. Marshall Zhukov was equally determined that Berlin would fall but he would do it on his own timetable and not on Moscow’s. He had as much as told his political officer that very thing. Fortunately, said political officer knew Zhukov well enough by now to hold his tongue.

Marshall Zhukov knew the Battle of Berlin would be a nightmare. The Germans would fight with the same intensity there that the Russians had fought with in Stalingrad. It would be a bloody battle with no quarter being asked and none given. And the troops guarding Berlin were having their fanaticism fueled by word that the Fuehrer himself had returned to Berlin to lead the final battle from his command center beneath the Chancellery. Stalin had sent word to Marshall Zhukov that at all costs Hitler must be taken alive, or his body must be recovered. Stalin had even sent a special squad from the NKVD to discover Hitler’s whereabouts and capture him if alive or retrieve his body if dead.

What Zhukov did not know was that he and Stalin were both the victims of a disinformation campaign perpetrated by Goebbels at the orders of his Fuehrer. Joseph Goebbels had returned to Berlin and was presently broadcasting from within the Fuehrer Bunker. He had already sent his wife and children on to Switzerland at the orders of the Fuehrer. Magda had not wanted to leave his side but Goebbels was firm. The children of the Goebbels family must survive to be the children that would carry forward the promise of the new Reich. They were the future, and when the time was right they would be the inheritors of a new Germany.

Goebbels was a loyal follower of his Fuehrer and was determined that he would not fall into Russian hands. He already had a cyanide capsule ready which was a final present from his Fuehrer. But before he died he would ensure that the Russians came to believe that Hitler was in Berlin. He had even hired an actor who sounded very much like Hitler to play the part and to broadcast on a weekly basis to the garrison in Berlin urging them to fight on. Like Goebbels, the actor – who had been chosen for his loyalty to the Nazi party – would die before the Russians reached the Bunker. Operation Phoenix was now under way.
 

Garrison

Donor
The Oncoming Storm said:
Well at least the Goebbels kids won't have the fate they did IOTL, though I really doubt there'll be anything for them to inherit.
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And a rapid change of names post war will be in order if they want to live any sort of life. There will be plenty of people only too willing to exact vengeance for the sins of the father on the children.
 

WCDouglas

NHBL said:
I have been enjoying this series since the beginning.

In regards to the surrender, in OTL the carriers were kept outside of Tokyo Bay because they were both incredibly valuable and incredibly vulnerable to treachery. Battleships are hardier--and LOOK impressive.

I've heard that USS Missouri was chosen personally by Truman, though I'm not sure if this was the case. If so, it would ensure that, if any batleships were preserved, it would be the one named for his home state.
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USS Missouri was chosen by the USN leadership, to score points with the new President in preparation for the budget fights with the Army. FDR had ordered Army and Navy leadership to start planning major budget and force cuts as early as the summer of 44 (which BTW happened, until the Berlin Crisis). So using the ship named after the POTUS's state was obvious!

Also, a battleship was chosen, as the safest place to have that many Admirals and Generals, and VIPS from the United Nations (the allies) in case the die-hards tried something. The same reason the rest of 5th Fleet (under Spruance) were off the coast at GQ, with planes fueled and armed.
 

Geon

Donor
Goodbye to Goering

And Goering implements his escape plan!
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Date: April 16, 1945
Location: Germany [Karinhall]
Time: 7:30 p.m.

It was past time to go Hermann Goering decided. For the past four months he had been putting the final touches to his escape plan. The destruction in December of most of the Luftwaffe in the air battle over Belgium had been the final straw. It was now clear the Reich would not last perhaps even until the summer. Thus Hermann Goering prepared to implement his escape plan.

Over the last few months he had secretly ordered that his horde of stolen art objects and treasure “collected,” from all over Europe be moved from its hiding places throughout Germany to Switzerland. He had contacted the Swiss and they had agreed to, for a fee, ensure that Goering’s fortune be protected within a Swiss bank. Millions of dollars worth of rare art objects and gold from the plundered countries would disappear into Swiss vaults under accounts which only had numbers, not names. The Swiss were the most careful and secure bankers on Earth. The fortune he now stored away would be enough to keep him and his family for the rest of their lives.

Now, as evening came Goering put on a flight/pressure suit specially made for him. For the thousandth time he blessed the Luftwaffe doctor who had helped him to lose the weight he needed and gotten him healthy enough for this. Then he and his valet drove out to an airfield that had been specially built on his mansion’s grounds for this moment. There on a field stood a Feisler 156 a small reconnaissance plane used by the Swiss and painted with Swiss markings.

Goering was an aviator first and last. He loved flight. He was determined not to simply slink into hiding across the border but to do so in a way that even if he was caught would be a fitting end for a World War I ace. The Feisler been stripped of all weaponry to make it all the faster. Goering would pilot the Feisler across the border and then land at a field to be met by his cohorts in Switzerland. The Swiss would undoubtedly spot him but they would think he was one of their own. Once he landed the plan was to destroy the aircraft and cover his tracks. New identity papers were all ready for him he was assured by the carefully bribed Swiss authorities who were helping in this deception. Within a few days he would be reunited with his wife and daughter and within a month if all went well they would all have new identities and be on their way to a new life elsewhere.

A final check by Goering showed everything was ready. The ground crew began to rev up the engines and Goering strapped into the cockpit tossed a last salute to his household staff and the ground crew. Goering had given orders that his home in Berchtesgaden was to remain open. He was certain the Americans would be the ones to take it and he decided that he would leave his vintage collection of wines for them. The soldiers just might appreciate such a gesture.

The plane began to roll down the air strip, and in moments it was airborne. It disappeared toward the south into the clouds quickly. It was the last time anyone would see Reichsmarshall Hermann Goering for many years.
 
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BELFAST

BELFAST

Karinhall was in east prussia.

Carinhall was the country residence of Hermann Göring, built on a large hunting estate northeast of Berlin in the Schorfheide forest between the lakes Großdöllner See and Wuckersee in the north of Brandenburg.
Fate

To prevent Carinhall from falling into the hands of the advancing Red Army, the compound was dynamited on 28 April 1945 at Göring's orders by a Luftwaffe demolition squad. The art treasures were evacuated beforehand to Berchtesgaden.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carinhall


He could have flown quickly for Berchtesgaden but would not have had the fuel for fly for Carinhall to Switzerland.

If I were him escaping I would have used a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fieseler_Fi_156.
121_4.jpg

9k=

Must easier to find a place to land in Switzerland and it could be painted in Swiss colours as the Swiss used the same aircraft..
also it is an easy aircraft to hide if needed for another escape.
 
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Michel Van

Michel Van

BELFAST said:
Karinhall was in east prussia.

Carinhall was the country residence of Hermann Göring, built on a large hunting estate northeast of Berlin in the Schorfheide forest between the lakes Großdöllner See and Wuckersee in the north of Brandenburg.
Fate

To prevent Carinhall from falling into the hands of the advancing Red Army, the compound was dynamited on 28 April 1945 at Göring's orders by a Luftwaffe demolition squad. The art treasures were evacuated beforehand to Berchtesgaden.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carinhall


He could have flown quickly for Berchtesgaden but would not have had the fuel for fly for Carinhall to Switzerland.

If I were him escaping I would have used a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fieseler_Fi_156.

Must easier to find a place to land in Switzerland and it could be painted in Swiss colours as the Swiss used the same aircraft..
also it is an easy aircraft to hide if needed for another escape.
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So the distance of that Carinhall to Swiss border is 677 km, 1050 km is range of Me 262 with fuel full loaded.
 

katchen

Banned
From the looks of things, the US may get to demonstrate it's nuclear weapons on Innsbruck and Bozen (Bolzano). Maybe also on Trent (Trentino) and Klagenfurt and Villach.
 
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