How Silent Fall the Cherry Blossoms
- Thread starter Geon
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Brilliant work again Geon! The shape of the post war world is beginning to emerge but there's still the endgame in Germany to come. 
Ya. How many times did we see headlines like 'major battle:30 killed', when it was30 americans and 200 iraqis.
katchen
Banned
Unfortunately, ITTL, I'm getting the feeling that chemical warfare is beginning to become routine. The Germans use it. The Wallies use it. The Russians use it. That particular genii is well and truly out of the bottle by early 1945. People are starting to get used to hearing about chemical weapons and their effects, on soldiers and civilians. It may no more be possible to ban chemical weapons in a cold war context than nuclear weapons or land mines or napalm.
I could easily see chemical weapons resorted to in the next conflicts, such as the Greek Civil War or the Chinese Civil War or the Korean War or the Israeli War of Liberation. By all sides and early on.
I could easily see chemical weapons resorted to in the next conflicts, such as the Greek Civil War or the Chinese Civil War or the Korean War or the Israeli War of Liberation. By all sides and early on.
Agreed.
The WW2 Chemical Weapons restraint helped instill the idea that some weapons are too horrible to actually use...which then extended to Atomic/Nuclear weapons in the cold war. No such taboo here.
Well not the Korean War. The West got the entire peninsula. Still you may be right, all future wars may have this nightmare involved or it might finally make everyone turn against it.
I fully expect however that a nuke will be used in Germany.
Tovarich
Banned
That's the thing about the cell system though, Otis; it's about as invulnerable to conventional armies as is possible to be - eg, that's why on paper the British Army could have squashed the PIRA anytime they chose, but in reality HMG eventually had to negotiate (even as the Provos eventually realised they would never 'win', and had to negotiate too).
Makes me wonder if in the future of TTL the same kind of people who formed the OTL Red Army Faction may end up dedicating themselves to fighting a 'Provisional NSDAP'.....that could be quite nightmarish for Europe, a 'Troubles' on the scale of all Germany rather than one British province
That's the thing about the cell system though, Otis; it's about as invulnerable to conventional armies as is possible to be - eg, that's why on paper the British Army could have squashed the PIRA anytime they chose, but in reality HMG eventually had to negotiate (even as the Provos eventually realised they would never 'win', and had to negotiate too).
Makes me wonder if in the future of TTL the same kind of people who formed the OTL Red Army Faction may end up dedicating themselves to fighting a 'Provisional NSDAP'.....that could be quite nightmarish for Europe, a 'Troubles' on the scale of all Germany rather than one British province
Not if the army is willing to deport an entire village at the first act of terrorism, or taking hostages and executing...things that the Wallies had done in OTL when some attempt of this kind of effort has been done; now image what the soviet will done. Not counting the fact the for now the civilian population of Germany is totally dependent on the allies for little things like food and shelter.
Tovarich
Banned
Maybe a minor quibble, but an interesting one.
I'm thinking that Japan already knew full well about the superiority of the aircraft carrier, possibly earlier than anyone else did, hence the attack at Pearl Harbour (plus TTL's first bio-warfare on LA was by submarine aircraft carrier!)
Now whilst those were small-beer compared to what happened to Japan, in the Western psyche they'll remain huge, so having the surrender on a battleship may remain first-choice for political reasoning.
(It may not feel like it to us, but 'spin' was not actually a new invention of the 1990s!)
Tovarich
Banned
Indeed, Luke, that is true.
But the plan as described in TTL is not for these resurgent-Nazis to begin work straightaway, it's to begin one generation later, in the late '50s/early '60s, by which time the Wallies (definitely) and the USSR (partially) are no longer actually occupying Germany, despite some presence there.
Well, I say that, for all I know in TTL all the Allies are still occupying Germany.....but in that case Germany has effectively been annexed and, to all intents and purposes, no longer exists.
From what i read, part are 'sleepers' and they will forge the next gen of nazi so to form their version of RAF, but another is akin to the 'werewolf' and they will begin insurgency almost immediately.
One bad thing.
Konrad Adenaur is almost certaibly dead -- the rhine river cities have been bombed & fought over for months.
And somewhere in a parallel Universe, Geon is writing what happened in OTL.
This is THE best ATL that I've read and like a previous user said, this would make one hell of a movie series (I wonder who would make it)
This is THE best ATL that I've read and like a previous user said, this would make one hell of a movie series (I wonder who would make it)
Great stuff!!!!
I have been enjoying this series since the beginning.
In regards to the surrender, in OTL the carriers were kept outside of Tokyo Bay because they were both incredibly valuable and incredibly vulnerable to treachery. Battleships are hardier--and LOOK impressive.
I've heard that USS Missouri was chosen personally by Truman, though I'm not sure if this was the case. If so, it would ensure that, if any batleships were preserved, it would be the one named for his home state.
I have been enjoying this series since the beginning.
In regards to the surrender, in OTL the carriers were kept outside of Tokyo Bay because they were both incredibly valuable and incredibly vulnerable to treachery. Battleships are hardier--and LOOK impressive.
I've heard that USS Missouri was chosen personally by Truman, though I'm not sure if this was the case. If so, it would ensure that, if any batleships were preserved, it would be the one named for his home state.
katchen
Banned
Karl Wolff and Reinhard Gehlen
And others, more middle ranking Nazis, will begin defecting to both the Wallies and the Soviets bearing intelligence secrets and helping to pit the Wallies and the Soviets against each other as in OTL.
Donald Reaver
Donor
There is no way they could have evacuated 90,000 troops from Norway, They did not have the Navy, Transport or air cover. And being hassled by Russian subs? Where is the Royal Navy, submarines and RAF.
This pretty well sums the attitude up: http://www.thecivilian.co.nz/equivalent-of-13-white-people-killed-in-egypt/
weakening of international law
This could seriously cripple any sort of future rules concerning how warfare is conducted. All the treaties intended to prevent these weapons from being used were ignored in the end--so would anyone be willing to consider any sort of non-proliferation treaty in the nuclear age?
Oh--to make this truely a BAD future, have Germany defeated before the nuclear weapons are available. That could mean that, in the next war, the mentality is that they are just a BIG bomb...and less cruel than gas or biowarfare...
This could seriously cripple any sort of future rules concerning how warfare is conducted. All the treaties intended to prevent these weapons from being used were ignored in the end--so would anyone be willing to consider any sort of non-proliferation treaty in the nuclear age?
Oh--to make this truely a BAD future, have Germany defeated before the nuclear weapons are available. That could mean that, in the next war, the mentality is that they are just a BIG bomb...and less cruel than gas or biowarfare...
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