How possible is this?

Nietzsche

Banned
I've been working a timeline, a Confederate Victory..but not like most others. It doesn't even involve much of a "Civil War". The PoD is the "54-40 or Fight". Polk keeps true to his campaign slogan, and goes to war with the British.

This, of course, is quite a large failure. Even more so that Britain works a deal up with the Mexican Empire to invade the United States(Due to the rising tensions with Britain, the US does not risk invading Mexico in May). The British blockade American Harbors and destroy most of the American fleet in various sea invasions, but never capturing any real harbors. However, the offensive in Maine is much more organized and successful. British troops crush most American defenses, which are manned by militia, as most of the army is split between fighting Mexico in the south and defending New Hampshire(it was decided that New Hampshire was more easily-defendable and easier to reach).

The War of 1846 ends officially on December 22nd, 1848. Mexican troops were held off more or less successfully, but the British forces in the north had occupied all of Maine and northern New Hampshire.

Basics from the Oregon Treaty of 1848;

On the American Continent, the British Empire is to have all land above the 42nd Parallel, save for the exceptions noted later.

The land the British Empire shall gain is the following:
The Entire Oregon Territory
The Montana Territory
Dakota Territory
The States of Wisconsin and Michigan
The State of Maine
The Northern portion of New Hampshire


The terms were harsh in the amount of land sacrificed, but the US had a choice of that, or being utterly carved up by Britain and Mexico.

In Mexico, the revolts were growing stronger even though technically winning a victory against the United States. William B. Ide lead the armed revolt in California, while the Yucatan and Texas revolted more and more heavily. William, declared the "President of the California Republic" would be shot and killed in a battle against Mexican infantry. The election of a new president was held off during the 'War of Independence'. As the Californian troops became more expeirenced, and began to secure arms from Britain(who would prefer an Anglo-Saxon friend in the Americans than a Latino one).

The army eventually began to win victory after victory against the Mexican Empire, which was crumbling at it's foundation. By 1850, the California Republic was recognized as a sovereign state by Britian and the United States of America, effectively killing any possible Mexican re-conquest. The borders were laid out simply:

California would gain the Nevada territories,Baja California, and of course California proper.

Due to the forces freed up from fighting Californians, the rebellions in the Yucatan and Texas are slowly fought back to a more manageable level.

(About to fall asleep on PC, will finish later)
 

corourke

Donor
Those terms seem very harsh. I can see the US losing territories, but states are a harder thing. I can see perhaps losing the Upper Peninsula, and northern Maine, but all of Maine, Wisconsin, and Michigan as well as a piece of New Hampshire seems very, very harsh.

I understand the US is beaten, but I don't know if Britain would even want to deal with those places. If I'm not mistaken, most of them were pretty populated by this time, especially Michigan and Wisconsin. However all that land out west is essentially up for grabs.
 

Nietzsche

Banned
Eh, true, but in most of these timelines using this as a PoD, Mexico is hardly mentioned. In this, they're a British temporary ally. Otherwise known as "You just won the wonka-ticket in world foreign relations, you may now do as you please with no fear of being man-handled".

Anyway, timeline moving on!

1852-
Tension within the Union is growing high, as Southern Slave owners are beginning to blame the government on the ever-expanding tariffs and increasing laws on slavery. The increasing tariffs are due to war-debts to Britain.

1854-
Tennessee secedes from the Union on December 22nd, declaring independence. Kentucky follows a week afterwards, along with Virginia and North Carolina. A pact is quickly drafted by former Tennessee Senator John Bell, who is elected as the De facto President. The Union of these states is popularly dubbed the "Confederated States of America", which, after slight modification, becomes the official name of the Pact "The Confederate States of America". The states of Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia and Florida follow in the proceeding months. Missouri joins by a 51% vote.

The capital of the Confederation is Nashville, and diplomatic deals with London and Washington commence almost immediately. London greets the Confederation as a new possible ally, to further weaken the United States and ensure British dominance & trading prospects. The United States is far less curtious, demanding that the states rejoin the Union or they will be taken back by force.

The reply to the United States was of defiance, and the United States declared war on June 11th, 1855. The National Guards of the States and most of the former Union army swear allegiance to the Confederate States, and the Virginia Army begins it's march to Washington.

The war would last for Six Months, roughly, with the actual fighting being minor. The only real, notable battle would be the Battle for Washington, in which the South captured the White House. Five months later, the Union sued for peace, the capitol temporarily relocated to Philadelphia.

The Terms for Peace offered by the United States Government, under President William Orlando Butler-

The ability to keep all states that have seceded to the Confederate States of America, short of Missouri, which shall be returned to the Union.

To compensate, the Confederate States of America will be given rights to United States Coal mines.

The Confederate States of America will be recognized as a sovereign state, and all territorial claims will be dropped.

The Confederacy accepted on December 22nd, 1855. Known as the "Birthday Peace".


(will continue later)
 
Wait, was Minnesota part of the Dakota territory in 1848? Otherwise the British have just conquered two states that aren't actually connected by land to any of their other holdings, but are connected by land to other US states.

edit: It's particularly harsh considering Michigan just entered one of the first ore booms of the nation in the mid-1840s. The Brits just caught a huge lode of copper in the form of the UP. Reminds me, does the California Gold Rush still happen on time, or have they yet to find anything?
 

Nietzsche

Banned
Wait, was Minnesota part of the Dakota territory in 1848? Otherwise the British have just conquered two states that aren't actually connected by land to any of their other holdings, but are connected by land to other US states.

edit: It's particularly harsh considering Michigan just entered one of the first ore booms of the nation in the mid-1840s. The Brits just caught a huge lode of copper in the form of the UP. Reminds me, does the California Gold Rush still happen on time, or have they yet to find anything?
Yes. The only difference is that all of that wealth and population is going to the California Republic.

In short, this is probably the most realistic "America Gang Rape" scenario..
 
Yes. The only difference is that all of that wealth and population is going to the California Republic.

In short, this is probably the most realistic "America Gang Rape" scenario..

Nietzsche

I would have to agree with the other commenter’s that I think the terms of the treaty with Britain are far too harsh. I could see the transfer of the territories and possibly Upper Michigan and the Lake Superior coast of Wisconsin but I think it would be too late for Britain to annex the entirety of both states. Also the northern part of Maine to rationalise the border but not the entire state along with part of New Hampshire. Its not in Britain's interest to go to such extremes unless you have the US really p**s them off dramatically. It does sound like the US hung on a long while after defeat was obvious but not sure even if that would push Britain so far. Could see such a treaty possibly after a dramatic victory in 1812 but this much later Canada is going to be absorbing a lot of US citizens.

Also a couple of technical points.
a) You mention that Britain would have all of N America about the 42 parallel apart from various exemptions. However you then mention a list of territory Britain gains but no exemptions. Checking a map I think the only actual area north of the line that wouldn't be transferred would be N York and the rest of N England.

b) You refer to the Mexican empire but I think, while a dictatorship it wasn't a formal empire at that time.

Steve
 

Nietzsche

Banned
Nietzsche

I would have to agree with the other commenter’s that I think the terms of the treaty with Britain are far too harsh. I could see the transfer of the territories and possibly Upper Michigan and the Lake Superior coast of Wisconsin but I think it would be too late for Britain to annex the entirety of both states. Also the northern part of Maine to rationalise the border but not the entire state along with part of New Hampshire. Its not in Britain's interest to go to such extremes unless you have the US really p**s them off dramatically. It does sound like the US hung on a long while after defeat was obvious but not sure even if that would push Britain so far. Could see such a treaty possibly after a dramatic victory in 1812 but this much later Canada is going to be absorbing a lot of US citizens.

Also a couple of technical points.
a) You mention that Britain would have all of N America about the 42 parallel apart from various exemptions. However you then mention a list of territory Britain gains but no exemptions. Checking a map I think the only actual area north of the line that wouldn't be transferred would be N York and the rest of N England.

b) You refer to the Mexican empire but I think, while a dictatorship it wasn't a formal empire at that time.

Steve
For B: It's a matter of taste. I've always heard as Mexico referred to as the "Mexican Empire" until the Treaty of GP

For A:
I wrote the first bit of this half-high, honestly. My sleeping pills make me pretty forgetful, but yes, the exceptions are rather obvious. Short of Maine & New Hampshire, the areas ceded were sparsely populated at best.

Britain wasn't so much pissed off, as they were holding all of the cards. It was a matter of: Lose all of this Territory to Britain, or lose that & more to Mexico.
 
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