How possible is this?

How possibloe is this map? It is a mix of OTL and Glen's excellent TL, Dominion of Southern America".

TAS.png
 
How possibloe is this map? It is a mix of OTL and Glen's excellent TL, Dominion of Southern America".

DrTron

Very few things are impossible in AH. ;) Given that Britain had a strong loyalist presence in the south it's possible that they could retain both something there, as in Glen's TL and the OTL north.

I would suspect that tension with the rump US would be markedly higher and probably some clashes. The US feeling surrounded and the British wishing to link up their interests in the west for instance. Therefore I suspect that you wouldn't be likely to get the tidy straight line boundaries. A lot would depend on how things develop politically in the various regions, both in N America and elsewhere.

Steve
 
DrTron

Very few things are impossible in AH. ;) Given that Britain had a strong loyalist presence in the south it's possible that they could retain both something there, as in Glen's TL and the OTL north.

I would suspect that tension with the rump US would be markedly higher and probably some clashes. The US feeling surrounded and the British wishing to link up their interests in the west for instance. Therefore I suspect that you wouldn't be likely to get the tidy straight line boundaries. A lot would depend on how things develop politically in the various regions, both in N America and elsewhere.

Steve
Thank you! The straight lines is very improbable I agree. America would be closer to France, Prussia or Portugal not Britain.
 

Glen

Moderator
How possibloe is this map? It is a mix of OTL and Glen's excellent TL, Dominion of Southern America".

It is quite possible, depending on the year. I somehow doubt that Russian Alaska will stand the test of time (also the borders of it are a touch close to OTL, but not out of the question).
 
It is quite possible, depending on the year. I somehow doubt that Russian Alaska will stand the test of time (also the borders of it are a touch close to OTL, but not out of the question).
Good point, some others have been saying that Britain would connect its two parts of America in the west. Is that probable?
 

Glen

Moderator
DrTron

Very few things are impossible in AH. ;) Given that Britain had a strong loyalist presence in the south it's possible that they could retain both something there, as in Glen's TL and the OTL north.

I would suspect that tension with the rump US would be markedly higher and probably some clashes. The US feeling surrounded and the British wishing to link up their interests in the west for instance. Therefore I suspect that you wouldn't be likely to get the tidy straight line boundaries. A lot would depend on how things develop politically in the various regions, both in N America and elsewhere.

Steve

Thank you! The straight lines is very improbable I agree. America would be closer to France, Prussia or Portugal not Britain.

On the topic of straight lines, given how underpopulated the West was when they were drawn, they could in fact be quite straight - the least probable part of that straight line, however, is where it crosses the Californian Central Valley - it is a low probability part of my timeline, so seeing it in multiple ones which diverge in the ARW (which given Canada, yours does), would be unlikely. Given your borders, it is more likely that there is either a dip there, giving the USA all of the Central Valley, or the British would have most of OTL California.
 
On the topic of straight lines, given how underpopulated the West was when they were drawn, they could in fact be quite straight - the least probable part of that straight line, however, is where it crosses the Californian Central Valley - it is a low probability part of my timeline, so seeing it in multiple ones which diverge in the ARW (which given Canada, yours does), would be unlikely. Given your borders, it is more likely that there is either a dip there, giving the USA all of the Central Valley, or the British would have most of OTL California.
Good point. I have changed it. This map also shows a British Alaska.

TAS.png
 
How possibloe is this map? It is a mix of OTL and Glen's excellent TL, Dominion of Southern America".

Somewhat, but not too terribly much, to be honest.........The U.S. would probably have all of California, if Mexico didn't.

I'd like to suggest that Mexico gets the Southwest back{TBH, A British Southwest makes little to no sense}.......the Dominion can keep Texas, though. :)
 
Why would Britain gain all of Oregon? It dont connect the two parts anyway.
Plus to anybody watching this thread, what POD would result in this?
Why did they want it IOTL? There was nothing to connect then. It's for the fur, land, resources and ports. And I think Britain would get it due to dominance over the US now. The US is surrounded by British territory and is smaller.
 
Why did they want it IOTL? There was nothing to connect then. It's for the fur, land, resources and ports. And I think Britain would get it due to dominance over the US now. The US is surrounded by British territory and is smaller.
Good point, Oregon is all British now.

The main points? Easy. The exact lines are a bit straight and artificial looking.
And the OTL border of Canada and USA is not?
Somewhat, but not too terribly much, to be honest.........The U.S. would probably have all of California, if Mexico didn't.

I'd like to suggest that Mexico gets the Southwest back{TBH, A British Southwest makes little to no sense}.......the Dominion can keep Texas, though. :)
Well in Glen's TL it was part of Britain, but I'll partition it differently...
 
DrTron

I think the borders will be decided by what happens on various issues. Most noticeably what relations between the US and Britain are like. probably markedly worse than OTL as both sides will believe there is unfinished business. However some other points that will affect matters.

a) Does the different ARW butterfly the French Revolution [probably not] but it will likely alter events in it.

b) Regardless of a) how quickly does the Spanish empire fall apart. If as OTL or later than places like Texas and further west could easily fall under British control as a result of a European centred conflict even before a Mexico comes into existence. Even before Texas there is the question of Louisiana.

c) How does the presence of a large and important slave holding region affect the historical movement to ban the slave trade and later slavery in the empire. If, as is likely, this leads to armed rebellion in the DSA [to use Glen's term for the area] what would be the reaction of the US and other players? Similarly, while the US slave holding region would probably fairly quickly become quite small economically it may well not disappear totally.

d) Presuming greater tension between Britain and the US how easily will America be able to develop any trans-Mississippi territories with British control of New Orleans and hence the regions main connection with the rest of the world.

e) Any other butterflies. For instance a really successful Britain on the points above, building on Britain's existing economic domination OTL could cause an hostile alliance in Europe. Also given the likely position of the US I doubt that Washington will make a commitment to 'no entangling alliances' or if he does it will stick for long.

Provided c) doesn't lead to the loss of the DSA [either to independence or a US take-over then unless/until e) or some other factor intervenes I could see the US being restricted to it's core territories and possibly losing at least some of the old NW area. Britain has too much control and with the important economical and political interests in the area is more likely to give higher priority to them while the US is likely to be very nervous about encirclement. In the early days, with the south secured and bases in the north you might even see Britain being the more aggressive of the two with a number of people having plans for at least partial reclaiming of the 'lost' colonies. [This is likely to fade fairly quickly especially since while a 1812 equivalent could see Britain 'winning' and making substantial gains in the west their likely to find any attempt to main gains in the US heartlands very difficult and costly. However I wouldn't rule some people considering this for the 1st generation or so of the US's existence].

Steve
 
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