How much of West Africa could the Phoenicians explore?

[HyperMuscularDemon]

This is a scenario which I have been sketching out in my head for some time. Basically, I read Wikipedia’s account of Hanno the Explorer, and that got me thinking: what if the Phoenicians/Carthaginians did not stop exploring West Africa?

Given that Phillip Beale has proven that Phoenician ships can sail around the African coast and even reach the Americas, I think it is highly possible for Phoenicians to keep sailing to West Africa.

But what would be the effects? Furthermore, could the Phoenicians build outposts on the coast of West Africa?

 

[cloistered scholar]

What if camels are introduced to north Africa sooner?

I had the idea of a rich merchant from Palestine introducing them to Carthage around 500 BC. From there they are used to trade with West Africa.

One of the problems with sailing along the North African Atlantic coast, is the current works against you traveling south. I think the Portuguese figured out that it was easier if you sailed south without hugging the coast.

 

[HyperMuscularDemon]

What if camels are introduced to north Africa sooner?

I had the idea of a rich merchant from Palestine introducing them to Carthage around 500 BC. From there they are used to trade with West Africa.

One of the problems with sailing along the North African Atlantic coast, is the current works against you traveling south. I think the Portuguese figured out that it was easier if you sailed south without hugging the coast.

Good points. Camels could be a lot of help. Also, the Phoenicians could use the Canary Islands to sail down West Africa.

 

[Analytical Engine]

Dakar is a pretty good place to put an outpost

 

[HyperMuscularDemon]

Dakar is a pretty good place to put an outpost

Good point. If the Phoenicians do that, they could explore further down the Gambian river.

 

[Terço]

This is a scenario which I have been sketching out in my head for some time. Basically, I read Wikipedia’s account of Hanno the Explorer, and that got me thinking: what if the Phoenicians/Carthaginians did not stop exploring West Africa?

Given that Phillip Beale has proven that Phoenician ships can sail around the African coast and even reach the Americas, I think it is highly possible for Phoenicians to keep sailing to West Africa.

But what would be the effects? Furthermore, could the Phoenicians build outposts on the coast of West Africa?

They are traders more than conquerors so they will establish good relations with everyone willing to trade with them.
Cabotage sailing could led them down the coast and probably establish some ports to trade goods with the native states and to ensure a "permanent" presence .

 

[Terço]

And the latter impact of solid trade links with western Africa after the consolidation of the Roman Empire is also something of note .
If gold ( mined inland) reaches an already established phoenician Dakar or Banjul that was conquered by Rome that would probably change the focus of the Roman expansion .

 

[HyperMuscularDemon]

And the latter impact of solid trade links with western Africa after the consolidation of the Roman Empire is also something of note .
If gold ( mined inland) reaches an already established phoenician Dakar or Banjul that was conquered by Rome that would probably change the focus of the Roman expansion .

Not to mention, crops could be exchanged both ways. In particular Sorghum and White Fonio.

 

[Terço]

Not to mention, crops could be exchanged both ways. In particular Sorghum and White Fonio.

And african rice.
The impact on the demography of the Roman Empire if rice becomes a common staple.

 

[Narrowback57]

If the Carthaginians were able to establish themselves at Cape Verde or/and Dakar, could that been a bolthole for them when the Punic Wars went bad for them? Possibly they end up at Cape town with plans for revenge but that fades and they build a new society. I believe present day South Africa was lightly populated then, mostly Khoisan peoples, the Bantu hadn't moved south yet. Guess it would depend if the descendants of the Carthaginians looked to the sea and trade or concentrated on land settlements

 

[Terço]

Phoenicians going down the coast would probably find Madeira and Cape Verde that hadn't a native population and the Canary Islands could end up as the main source of settlers if phoenician merchants take canarian wives.
A Cothon in Atl Dakar would probably be the main trade node and punic influence would spread inland.
That far away from the Mediterranean wouldn't they evolve into a different political entity?
Mulattos speaking a phoenician creole?
Otl Cape Verdians range from light skinned with grey eyes to very dark skinned with almost black eyes, this punic state on the fringe of the known world would probably develop into a mixed civilization.

 

[HyperMuscularDemon]

And african rice.
The impact on the demography of the Roman Empire if rice becomes a common staple.

Good point. African rice could be a very useful crop to the Phoenicians.

 

[Analytical Engine]

Don't forget, any Phoenician expansion in West Africa is going to have to deal with the issue of native diseases

 

[Terço]

Don't forget, any Phoenician expansion in West Africa is going to have to deal with the issue of native diseases

True.
But if they focus on the area between the Senegal and Gambia rivers they will avoid the worst areas and like the portuguese centuries latter trade in less hospitable areas would be done by assimilated natives.

 

[HyperMuscularDemon]

If the Carthaginians were able to establish themselves at Cape Verde or/and Dakar, could that been a bolthole for them when the Punic Wars went bad for them? Possibly they end up at Cape town with plans for revenge but that fades and they build a new society. I believe present day South Africa was lightly populated then, mostly Khoisan peoples, the Bantu hadn't moved south yet. Guess it would depend if the descendants of the Carthaginians looked to the sea and trade or concentrated on land settlements

I think they would likely go for São Tomé and Principe, as that would be nearer.

 

[HyperMuscularDemon]

Phoenicians going down the coast would probably find Madeira and Cape Verde that hadn't a native population and the Canary Islands could end up as the main source of settlers if phoenician merchants take canarian wives.
A Cothon in Atl Dakar would probably be the main trade node and punic influence would spread inland.
That far away from the Mediterranean wouldn't they evolve into a different political entity?
Mulattos speaking a phoenician creole?
Otl Cape Verdians range from light skinned with grey eyes to very dark skinned with almost black eyes, this punic state on the fringe of the known world would probably develop into a mixed civilization.

Not to mention, knowledge of West Africa could actually filter back up to Europe.

 

[Terço]

I think they would likely go for São Tomé and Principe, as that would be nearer.

Malaria is endemic in São Tomé e Príncipe, a white man graveyard as they said in the XIX century.
Ascensão and Santa Helena are interesting as pit stops, one or several lost boats could accidentally reach the Americas.

 

[Conan]

And african rice.
The impact on the demography of the Roman Empire if rice becomes a common staple.

Is the Mediterranean really a suitable climate of rice, though?

 

[Terço]

Is the Mediterranean really a suitable climate of rice, though?

Grown in Portugal since the XVIII century, same in Spain and Italy.
If you have the manpower its doable.
Facing problems due to malaria in areas suitable for rice, the portuguese "imported " african manpower less susceptible to the disease.

 

[HyperMuscularDemon]

Malaria is endemic in São Tomé e Príncipe, a white man graveyard as they said in the XIX century.
Ascensão and Santa Helena are interesting as pit stops, one or several lost boats could accidentally reach the Americas.

Interesting point. Could there be a Phoenician version of Easter Island somewhere in the Atlantic?