How much earlier can the music video become mainstream?

Pretty much what it says in the title, how much earlier can we see the music video, first brought into the mainstream in the US by PopClips in 1979 and then becoming part of the mainstream music industry with MTV, brought into the mainstream of the music industry, complete with shows and/or TV Channels devoted to airing them?
 
The music video became popular thanks to MTV and Michael Jackson. If I remember right, in its earlier days, MTV aired even clips from concerts when the music video wasn't available, so it's not like it was a music video channel from the beginning, it was just a music channel. Then Michael came, and since he was extremely popular, people wanted his music on MTV. His music came with music videos, so his music videos began showing up on MTV, and the rest is history. In order to have an earlier "mainstreaming" of MVs, you have to have a popular singer who already has them, and a demand for his music. It helps that some music videos of MJ were short movies in all but name.
 
Pretty much what it says in the title, how much earlier can we see the music video, first brought into the mainstream in the US by PopClips in 1979 and then becoming part of the mainstream music industry with MTV, brought into the mainstream of the music industry, complete with shows and/or TV Channels devoted to airing them?

Generating content may be the easiest part of the puzzle here.

In OTL The Beatles lead the way from 1965 when it came to recording 'promo films' for their latest singles (starting with Day Tripper/We can work it out), which sated the appetite for Beatles appearances on many music shows.

See this clip from the Ed Sullivan show, 1966 with an into about why they're not appearing in person:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_4E5LTSsvg

Some other bands also made their own promo films..

The Who http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52cQeFBU2Kw
The Kinks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0WPC-N3UYE
Rolling Stones http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfUZDzEN_I0

It just needs more pressure from management / labels to opt for pre-filmed segments instead of 'in-person' appearances for TV shows.

That's part of the solution - the other side is finding an outlet for the films - perhaps Dick Clark pitches a show to ABC circa 1966/67 to purely screen promotional clips submitted by the record companies instead of live band appearances?

With more controversial bands gaining popularity in 1967, the prospect of a show with 100% pre-recorded clips will have great appeal to network censors.. it sure avoids situations like the Doors infamous Ed Sullivan Show appearance!

We could see a situation by the end of the 1960s where American Bandstand features bubblegum & relatively straightforward pop, and it's sister program showcases progressive & psychedelic bands that are more keen to create films to convey their music's message (vetted & censored by the network, naturally).
 
In OTL The Beatles lead the way from 1965 when it came to recording 'promo films' for their latest singles (starting with Day Tripper/We can work it out), which sated the appetite for Beatles appearances on many music shows.
I'm quite sorry?

I do agree that getting major networks to go for prerecorded segments is a good way to do it, though I'd also suggest movie theatres as a potential outlet- put 'em right before the cartoon. Theatres having 'music only' days, perhaps?
 

Fair point, but I was meaning clips made just for the song, specifically to be played in TV shows (rather than as a set-piece scene in a movie).

We could even count Cliff Richard's 'Summer Holiday' movie as a precursor to music video if we're counting movies!

I do agree that getting major networks to go for prerecorded segments is a good way to do it, though I'd also suggest movie theatres as a potential outlet- put 'em right before the cartoon. Theatres having 'music only' days, perhaps?

Would that achieve greater audience penetration that network TV?

I'm guessing a lot depends on how many homes have 2 or more TVs - hard to see the kids over-ruling their parents viewing choices in 1-set homes.
 
Would that achieve greater audience penetration that network TV?

I'm guessing a lot depends on how many homes have 2 or more TVs - hard to see the kids over-ruling their parents viewing choices in 1-set homes.
Depends on timeframe. Consider that cable TV didn't actually take off in the US until the early 80s- if you start developing music videos as commonplace in the 50s and 60s, there's at least a decade or so where the gap must be bridged- and a Music Hour on ABC would go a long way towards it. This is more a supplementary proposal, simply noting a potential: While movie theatre attendance in the 60s was vastly decreased from previous levels, around 10% of Americans attended a cinema weekly (a number that's stayed roughly constant since, to be fair). If the same level of theatre attendance that served to make the line 'We're gonna need a bigger boat' pretty much memetic, then I'm sure a popular video or two before the film might be pretty well served. :)
 
Depends on timeframe. Consider that cable TV didn't actually take off in the US until the early 80s- if you start developing music videos as commonplace in the 50s and 60s, there's at least a decade or so where the gap must be bridged- and a Music Hour on ABC would go a long way towards it.

This is more a supplementary proposal, simply noting a potential: While movie theatre attendance in the 60s was vastly decreased from previous levels, around 10% of Americans attended a cinema weekly (a number that's stayed roughly constant since, to be fair). If the same level of theatre attendance that served to make the line 'We're gonna need a bigger boat' pretty much memetic, then I'm sure a popular video or two before the film might be pretty well served. :)

A "pre-recorded promo"-based music show just needs someone driving the idea. Dick Clark immediately springs to mind, given his proven business nous with American Bandstand I think ABC would listen to any idea he offered-up. All it needs is for him to be convinced that these films are worthy of a show of their own.

As for the movie-based option.. it could be a way of keeping the practice of having a 'short' before the main feature.
 
It could go back to 1956 with the film 'Rock Around the Clock' for, well, rock and roll stuff. But what about the films made people such as George Formby or all the singing cowboys made in the '30's? Do these count?

Edit, What about The Jazz Singer, 1926?
 
I agree on "movie-pre-show" as a possible outlet.

How about someone comes up with the idea of a new video being exclusively shown ahead of a certain movie, a week before the release of the single? An early sort of cross-marketing.

Another thing to consider: such promo-videos could also be useful abroad for foreign music shows such as (in Germany) "Disco" (1971-82) or "Beat-Club" (1965-72).

As a pioneer, Elvis Presley during his movie period comes to mind. Had he made videos, he could have come earlier with that than the Beatles. If he establishes this art-form already, the Beatles could soon take it on a new level with their creativity and humour.
 
Maybe there's an alternative to having the USA drive the early days of music video TV...

In 1967, you have 2 great developments in UK broadcasting that could make Britain the leader in music video programming.

* The movement of DJs from pirate radio to the BBC, as pirate radio stations are shut-down in 1967

* The development of TV network BBC2 between 1965 & 1967 under David Attenborough (including the first regular colour TV broadcasts in the UK)

What if BBC2 commission a popular music show to screen pop music in a more artistic manner than 'Top of the Pops'-style lip-synching in front of dancing teenagers, with an emphasis on promotional clips or 'in studio' live performances in front of the cameras, without an audience?

They could even employ John Peel to host...
 
The Scopitone might be interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopitone

Scopitone is a type of jukebox featuring a 16 mm film component. Scopitone films were a forerunner of music videos. The Italian Cinebox/Colorama and Color-Sonics were competing, lesser-known technologies of the time.Based on Soundies technology developed during WWII,color 16 mm film clips with a magnetic soundtrack were designed to be shown in a specially designed jukebox. Between 1940 and 1946, three-minute musical films called Soundies (produced in New York City, Chicago, and Hollywood) were displayed on a Panoram, the first coin-operated film jukebox or machine music.

These were set up in nightclubs, bars, restaurants, and amusement centers.The first Scopitones were made in France, by a company called Cameca on Blvd Saint Denis in Courbevoie, among them Serge Gainsbourg's Le poinçonneur des Lilas (filmed in 1958 in the Porte des Lilas Métro station), Johnny Hallyday's "Noir c'est noir" (a cover of Los Bravos' "Black Is Black") and the "Hully Gully" showing a dance around a swimming pool.
Scopitones spread to West Germany, where the Kessler Sisters burst out of twin steamer trunks to sing "Quando Quando" on the dim screen that surmounted the jukebox. Scopitone went on to appear in bars in England, including a coffee bar in Swanage where Telstar was a favourite. By 1964, approximately 500 machines were installed in the US.
The biggest musical stars of the 1960s were never released on the Scopitone.

Several well-known acts of the 1960s appear in Scopitone films, however, ranging from the earlier part of the decade The Exciters ("Tell Him") and Neil Sedaka ("Calendar Girl") to Procol Harum ("A Whiter Shade of Pale") later on. In one Scopitone recording, Dionne Warwick lay on a white shag rug with an offstage fan urging her to sing "Walk On By". Another had Nancy Sinatra and a troupe of go-go girls shimmy to "These Boots Are Made for Walkin'". Inspired by burlesque, blonde bombshell Joi Lansing performed "Web of Love" and "The Silencer", and Julie London sang "Daddy" against a backdrop of strippers.
The artifice of such scenes led Susan Sontag to identify Scopitone films as "part of the canon of Camp" in her 1964 essay "Notes on 'Camp'."

By the end of the 1960s, the popularity of the Scopitone had faded.The last film for a Scopitone was made at the end of 1978. In 2006 French singer Mareva Galanter released several videos which mimic the Scopitone style. Galenta's album Ukuyéyé features several songs in the French Yé-yé style. She also recently hosted a weekly French television program called "Do you do you Scopitone" on the Paris Première channel.
As of the mid-2000s, one of the few Scopitones not in a museum or private collection in the US was at the Belcourt Theatre in Nashville, Tennessee. Many Scopitone films have been released on DVD or made available on the internet.
 
Maybe there's an alternative to having the USA drive the early days of music video TV...

In 1967, you have 2 great developments in UK broadcasting that could make Britain the leader in music video programming.

* The movement of DJs from pirate radio to the BBC, as pirate radio stations are shut-down in 1967

* The development of TV network BBC2 between 1965 & 1967 under David Attenborough (including the first regular colour TV broadcasts in the UK)

What if BBC2 commission a popular music show to screen pop music in a more artistic manner than 'Top of the Pops'-style lip-synching in front of dancing teenagers, with an emphasis on promotional clips or 'in studio' live performances in front of the cameras, without an audience?

They could even employ John Peel to host...

A sort of earlier Old Grey Whistle Test?

Even TOTP would have benefited from more widespread promo films.... far better than having Pans People or Legs and Co and their awful dance routines:)
 
A sort of earlier Old Grey Whistle Test?

But wasn't Old Grey Whistle Test based around "in tv studio" live performances.. more of a fore-runner to Later with Jules Holland?

I was thinking more of a BBC late-60s equivalent to Radio with Pictures, New Zealand's own video clips show from the 1980s, with a leaning towards underground acts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=231eL-gWG-w&feature=related

That show was actually simulcast on a few FM stations for viewers to enjoy stereo sound as they watched.
 
But wasn't Old Grey Whistle Test based around "in tv studio" live performances.. more of a fore-runner to Later with Jules Holland?

I was thinking more of a BBC late-60s equivalent to Radio with Pictures, New Zealand's own video clips show from the 1980s, with a leaning towards underground acts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=231eL-gWG-w&feature=related

That show was actually simulcast on a few FM stations for viewers to enjoy stereo sound as they watched.

Ah hadn't heard of Radio With Pictures before. I hope they featured the Chills more than once (saw them supporting the Hoodoo Gurus in London in 1987)

OGWT was pretty much studio based but adding in more film/video content might have given the sort of programme you had in mind.

Still think that TOTP would also have shown more promos if they had been available instead of relying on dance routines to fill in for absent bands
 
How about a Cinema chain that owns a record label that puts music videos in before films as shorts? That company then goes on to run a TV station.

For instance in the UK its not so far fetched to imagine one of the record labels merging with a cinema chain:

"Television led to a sharp decline in cinema audiences after 1950 though with the coming of commercial television in 1956 ABPC expanded into the new medium with the creation of ABC Television Limited, which won the Independent Television contracts for the North of England and Midlands at the weekend."

"As a result of the decline many suburban theatres closed. Most of those remaining lost their individual names and were simply ABCs. In 1967, Seven Arts, the new owners of Warner, decided to dispose of its holdings in ABPC and subsequently EMI launched a successful take-over bid for the company"

I'd presume that could happen a lot earlier, the Gramophone Company (EMI's predecessor) was pretty big and had holdings in all sorts of stuff. They take over the chain and produce shorts as free advertising for their music, as cinemas decline a bit and they enter TV, they broadcast the films on TV and in the cinemas.

Another company called Rank (probably most famous today for Carry On films) also set up a record label and owned a cinema chain
 
Too bad music videos couldn't have been big just before disco stormed the stage. I'd like to see that in video form.
 
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