How much did Romania shorten WW2 by switching sides ?

how much did the Romanian switch affect the legth of the war ?

  • Scenario 1 - war lasts almost 6 months longer

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So, quite a number of times I've seen and heard people around here (here meaning in Romania), who don't appear to really know what their talking about, claim that by switching sides in august 1944, Romania shortend the war by 6 months.

I find this quite laughable, and am quite certain that it's the product of ingrained communist propaganda, which was dedicated to showing just how important the coup (which they falsely claimed was largely their doing) actually was.

So, what do you guys think ? What kind of effects did august 23rd have on the length of the war ?

Assuming 2 scenarios:
either
1. the coup had no important military effects and the soviets would have broken through, trapped the Germans and established a foothold across the Carpathians regardless

or

2. the effects of the switch were militarily important on a local scale. The axis regroups in the narrow choke point between the Carpathians and Danube, delaying the soviets. If and when the Soviets puncture this line, most German troops are lucky and escape across the Carpathians, blocking the mountain passes.
 
Look on it from other side. Soviets got pretty quickly through Carpathians towards Hungarian border.
Something similar was attempted by Slovak army, but Slovak best divisions in Eastern Slovakia were disarmed by Germans in sudden night action.
Uprising in Slovak mountains lasted for another 2 months with inferior units. On the other sides, Germans managed to stop Soviets first on Polish border and later on, they were retreating from one mountain range to the other.
It took Soviets, Czechoslovaks and later also Romanians from September 1944 to April 1945 to reach Vag river and even little bit longer to get to actual Slovak - Czech border.
 
So, quite a number of times I've seen and heard people around here (here meaning in Romania), who don't appear to really know what their talking about, claim that by switching sides in august 1944, Romania shortend the war by 6 months.

I find this quite laughable, and am quite certain that it's the product of ingrained communist propaganda, which was dedicated to showing just how important the coup (which they falsely claimed was largely their doing) actually was.

So, what do you guys think ? What kind of effects did august 23rd have on the length of the war ?

Assuming 2 scenarios:
either
1. the coup had no important military effects and the soviets would have broken through, trapped the Germans and established a foothold across the Carpathians regardless

or

2. the effects of the switch were militarily important on a local scale. The axis regroups in the narrow choke point between the Carpathians and Danube, delaying the soviets. If and when the Soviets puncture this line, most German troops are lucky and escape across the Carpathians, blocking the mountain passes.
You are actually right;it was communist propaganda or so I am trying to say to Romanians but they are infested with ideas of Romanian glory,(standard practice of communist parties in any country they prevailed in Eastern Europe) and of course in such cases none comes down to earth easily...
 
You are actually right;it was communist propaganda or so I am trying to say to Romanians but they are infested with ideas of Romanian glory,(standard practice of communist parties in any country they prevailed in Eastern Europe) and of course in such cases none comes down to earth easily...
I still think, that without the coup, Soviets wouldn't have problems in low parts of the country but in Carpathians their advance could be significantly slowed down.
As an example I showed German performance in mountains of Slovakia, where they were successfully defending their lanes with small forces for almost 8 months and retreated only when exposed from sides as Soviets advanced in Poland and Hungary.
 
I still think, that without the coup, Soviets wouldn't have problems in low parts of the country but in Carpathians their advance could be significantly slowed down.
As an example I showed German performance in mountains of Slovakia, where they were successfully defending their lanes with small forces for almost 8 months and retreated only when exposed from sides as Soviets advanced in Poland and Hungary.


I too think it is within the capabilities of a combined German-Romanian-Hungarian force to hold onto the Carpathian passes for maybe as long as early spring 1945 at best. However, I don't think that necessarily translates into a shorter war, as the Soviets might push more units into Poland, as well as bypass the mountains alltogether by going south into Bulgaria and the west into Serbia, though that would take some time as the local infrastructure is not quite top-class (with maybe lots of stuff piling up north of the Danube awaiting to be shipped across).

Berlin, the Ruhr and Silezia are just as (un)safe with German troops spending the winter in the Carpathians instead of in Hungary, and once those areas are gone, the war is over.
 
But for Russians to put some pressure on Germans-Romanians and Hungarians in Carpathians and also put significant force to Bulgaria and Serbia and also to put more men into Poland will be drain on manpower. And Russian were really short in 1945. In Czechoslovakia 2 Romanian Armies were fighting against Germans. They had over 84 000 KIA. If they were fighting still on German side, it would disadvantage Soviets.
 
I think it would prolong the war for a number of reasons, not only would the Russians have to waste time breaching the FNB line but much of the transport both on the Danube and with Romanian railroads be unavailable and the Germans would have access to Romanian oil longer than OTL
 
By late spring 1944, oil production had dropped considerably due to a bevy of reasons, including wells 'drying up'.

On-topic: the switch did shorten the war somewhat, by a few months (but no more than 5).
 
Even if it slows the Soviets down (which I agree it would) by not switching sides, how will it slow the United States down?

You might simply see Patton making a lunge for Berlin about the same time.
 
I too think it is within the capabilities of a combined German-Romanian-Hungarian force to hold onto the Carpathian passes for maybe as long as early spring 1945 at best. However, I don't think that necessarily translates into a shorter war, as the Soviets might push more units into Poland, as well as bypass the mountains
I tend to agree with this. Between the FNG line and the various defensive positions in the Carpathians, I think it would take the Soviets at least 6 months to clear Romania. But the straight line from Russia to Berlin does not go through the Carpathians, it goes through Poland which is a flat plain.
Maybe if the Soviets feel the need to detach some units to secure the southern flank, then this would compromise their first assault on Berlin, which means the war is 1-2 months longer, but not more.
 
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