How long would REFORGER take?

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Icarus II, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. Mysterion Alterninaut

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    FWIW, I was stationed with a US Army combat engineer battalion in the early 80's. We trained a heck of a lot more for chemical warfare thrown at us than we did for nukes as I recall. I'm really glad we never had to fight in central Europe. The idea of my unit rushing to the Fulda Gap to try and get mines put in before the Soviet tanks showed up did not sound like it was gonna be a fun time at all.
     
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  2. aaronupright Well-Known Member

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    Mar 27, 2019
    Pretty sure trying to defend the Baltic’s with half a dozen planes and a couple of battalions and no natural obstacle is even less fun for modern NATO.

    Speaking of which, the REFORGER stocks are long gone. What exactly does exit to stop the Russians if they decide that a Vistula sightseeing trip sounds nice? Prayer and incense?
     
  3. David Floyd Well-Known Member

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    Airpower and logistics, I would imagine.
     
  4. Forcon Well-Known Member

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    Yup, this. The Baltics would fall quickly in any scenario due to the geography but Poland, backed by the Bundeswehr heavy units, French rapid-deployment troops, the 82nd Airborne, and the NATO Response Force would hold its own until the main US and British armoured formations arrived.

    That said, the Cold War era REFORGER plans were a lot more solid. It was what, 10 days, for the III Corps and the reinforcements for V & VII Corps to arrive?
     
  5. ObssesedNuker Commander of 10 million men

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    Yeah, the build-up to retake the Baltic’s given the lack of pre-planning would mean the timeframe would be more akin to something like Desert Shield/Storm then Reforger, but there’s little doubt it’d happen. In a way, that battalion the US have in the Baltic’s proper is more analogous to the Berlin garrison, which is likewise guaranteed to be hosed in any pre-‘89 WW3 scenario. Their there to ensure American commitment by forcing the Russians to have American blood on their hands. Getting butchered is basically their job in the event of a real invasion... and hence serves to help act as a deterrent to one.
     
  6. Barry Bull Donor

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  7. Carl Schwamberger Well-Known Member

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    Dec 14, 2012
    My memory is it was the "Nightmare Scenario". Of course that was back when intelligence agencies were telling us the Red Army soldier was three meters tall, trained to Spetznatz standards everyone of them, and their weapons all worked perfectly every time.

    When I fired a AK47 the first time and it instantly jammed I decided much of what I'd been told was BS. In 1985 I was with a group receiving a briefing on Soviet made equipment from a US Army intel unit. Close examination and effort to use the stuff in US Army training exercises revealed it to be poorly made junk. The designs looked good on paper, and the intel people told us sometimes they did see well made items, but most of what they had was badly made.
     
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  8. Carl Schwamberger Well-Known Member

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    As a Desert Shield participant my take is the REFORGER plans and exercises prepped us very well for reinforcing Central Command & the build up of the US 8th Army, the MEF, the air forces in SWA, ect... One of the field artillery brigades @ FT Sill. a corps artillery group, had just the previous winter executed a full embarkation and water transport exercise enroute to a corps support firing exercise. Then they did it over again for the return to Ft Sill. From experience I can say that would have been immensely helpful for those guys when they deployed to SWA in 1990. The experience of multiple REFORGER exercises would have tricked through the US Army over the decades and made the movement to SWA much easier than it might have been.
     
  9. Not James Stockdale Those Protestants... Up to no good, as usual

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    The only force in central Europe capable of fighting at the division level is the Polish army. The Germans are combat-ineffective and would have difficulty scraping together two brigades in a month. The French and British could respond, but their heavy forces are pathetically small. Light forces like the 82nd Airborne and possibly the Stryker cavalry will have no way to survive under Russia's massive artillery and ground EW advantage (both of which require only a few well-trained people to be effective), and Russian air defenses and naval forces in Kaliningrad and the Baltic will give at least a week of practical air superiority over the front. Although the Russians don't use them anymore, the battalion tactical groups that fought in the major battles in Donbass had more artillery than a US armored brigade and the more modern brigade tactical groups include at least three battalions of artillery (SP, towed, and rockets) in addition to three battalions of ground combat troops.
     
  10. aaronupright Well-Known Member

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    US has been all COIN for like 15 years right?
    Then 2014 hit and everyone was like Oh shit!
     
  11. Zen9 Well-Known Member

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    Nov 18, 2018
    If you want to stop the Soviet or modern Russian Army. Then all you need is large supplies dumps of food booze and prostitutes. Maybe some valuable goods as well.
     
  12. aaronupright Well-Known Member

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    Mar 27, 2019
    Missile salvos on your airbases and logistic dumps make that, interesting.