How long would Mitteleuropa last in the event of a German WWI victory?

A lot has been written today so I'm just shooting rom the hip.

I've been trying to think of a good analogue for the ME territories, they aren't going to be like colonies in Africa or anything but perhaps like Ireland and the Dominions in the British Empire. They will be given a considerable measure of self government but their foreign policy will be controlled from Berlin and they will be part of the German economic bloc before they make any other association and there will be regular debate in the Reichstag on Home Rule for any really fractious members.

As for the proto-Nazi thing, that does not denote that the KR isn't going to be rainbows and unicorns but rather that the HR wasn't a horrific dictatorship it was a constitutional monarchy and powers that be weren't in the war for living space and want to murder and enslave entire populations. The regular vibe that I and others rail against is people quoting what Ludendorff wanted as official German policy and the powers he and Hindy took on as how the KR and ME will be ruled for decades to come. I think it's lazy historiography, falling back on memes as arguments.
 

BooNZ

Banned
A lot has been written today so I'm just shooting rom the hip.

I've been trying to think of a good analogue for the ME territories, they aren't going to be like colonies in Africa or anything but perhaps like Ireland and the Dominions in the British Empire. They will be given a considerable measure of self government but their foreign policy will be controlled from Berlin and they will be part of the German economic bloc before they make any other association and there will be regular debate in the Reichstag on Home Rule for any really fractious members.

If I were shooting from the hip, I think ME membership obligations would be benign and members would retain their full independence, except in relation to external trade and perhaps currency. The obligations placed on defeated (or 'liberated') states would vary on a case by case basis and not linked to their ME membership obligations. To generalize, this could result in Baltic states with low population densities being colonized/Germanized, Poland being treated something like Ireland and Romania being treated something like a Dominion. In my opinion the Germans would ultimately abandon the Ukraine and might initially struggle to deal with Lithuania effectively (due to its high population density and strong nationalism).
 
If I were shooting from the hip, I think ME membership obligations would be benign and members would retain their full independence, except in relation to external trade and perhaps currency. The obligations placed on defeated (or 'liberated') states would vary on a case by case basis and not linked to their ME membership obligations. To generalize, this could result in Baltic states with low population densities being colonized/Germanized, Poland being treated something like Ireland and Romania being treated something like a Dominion. In my opinion the Germans would ultimately abandon the Ukraine and might initially struggle to deal with Lithuania effectively (due to its high population density and strong nationalism).

That's not a bad summary, the key thing that the arrangements will fit the circumstances.

One surprising thing I learned a couple of months ago was that the German politicians were ultra keen for the western powers to agree to the ME because if they cut Germany out of the world markets ME wouldn't be enough to compensate. This is why Belgium was in and out depending on the way the wind was blowing.
 
You appear to be conflating Mitteleuropa with a wider collection of sometimes extreme German war goals (including extended occupations, forced relocations etc). As outlined above, many of the more extreme policies advocated by Ludendoff (worthy of legitimate critisim) were simply not compatible with the concept of Mitteleuropa. If the OP questions the potential longevity of Mitteleuropa, it implies conditions that would enable Mitteleuropa to be established in the first place - this does require an element of optimism/ pragmatism.

The OP implying the formation of Mitteleuropa makes it very clear the military (specifically Ludendoff) will not be dictating the final terms.

I am using "Mitteleuropa" as a shorthand for "German-dominated chunk of Europe in a CP victory scenario"; in other words, as a term denoting any such German sphere of influence, regardless of how compromising or stubborn it is, how how free or forced the other participating countries are, how strictly it's controlled and how "hard" or "soft" it is on any particular country.

That's what Mitteleuropa is often, if not always, understood to mean. The OP can clarify for himself, but I'm pretty sure he was using the term the same way: Germany and its sphere of puppets, protectorates and junior partners, whatever they and their relationship happen to look like.
 
Just to clear something else :
when the Kurland nobles approached Willy II, offereing the crown of their dutchy he answered :
Thanks, ... but no thanks.

He didn't wanted any crown in the Baltikum. He might have agreed, that some relative or any other more or less 'royal' pretender of german origin might become head of state there, though with the experience about the spanish crown and the albanian crown he wasn't even very fond of this.

That's strange, because what I've read says that Willy did want the crown - and that he did take it.

"On March 8, 1918, Kurland’s land council invited the Kaiser to take the grand ducal crown, which he graciously accepted.
...
Finally, seeing that it would have to do without native approval, on April 12, 1918, the United Land Council asked for personal union with Kaiser Wilhelm, who accepted on April 21, 1918.
"
^Liulevicus, War Land on the Eastern Front, p. 208

" ‘The Baltic lands are indivisible and I will be their ruler!’, [Wilhelm] cried a few weeks later. "
^Röhl, Wilhelm II: Into the Abyss of War and Exile, p. 1157
 

BooNZ

Banned
I am using "Mitteleuropa" as a shorthand for "German-dominated chunk of Europe in a CP victory scenario"; in other words, as a term denoting any such German sphere of influence, regardless of how compromising or stubborn it is, how how free or forced the other participating countries are, how strictly it's controlled and how "hard" or "soft" it is on any particular country.

Thank you for the clarification. I first encountered the concept of Mitteleuropa in reading Fritz Fischer around the time the European Union was being formalized. Fritz Fischer purports to represent the Mitteleuropa envisaged by the German leadership during the war. That vision bears a striking resemblance to an enhanced EEC. It was that vision of Mitteleuropa at the forefront of Germen foreign policy and economic planning for the duration of the war.

Upon revisiting the material, it was clear the more extreme demands made by Ludendoff were simply not compatible with Middeleuropa and he had effectively dismissed the notion of Mitteleuropa as he understood it (from 1917 onward). However, it is extraordinarily unlikely Ludendoff's extreme demands would have survived his removal from power, which would have been inevitable unless Germany was somehow locked in a perpetual war. Once the war ends, the military loses its seat at the table.

That's what Mitteleuropa is often, if not always, understood to mean. The OP can clarify for himself, but I'm pretty sure he was using the term the same way: Germany and its sphere of puppets, protectorates and junior partners, whatever they and their relationship happen to look like.

Yeah, upon re-reading the POD, it does appears the OP might have slapped a Mitteleuropa badge on a scenario featuring a few proto-Nazi elements...
 
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