How Long Did it Take For Awareness of Loyalism in America to Fade?

Schnozzberry

Gone Fishin'
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Hey, to get back to something resembling the original discussion before it was derailed by numpties, in Canada loyalists could attach U.E. as postnomials to their names after the Revolution ended, as well as use special crowns in their heraldry. From what I've been reading, both are still used on rare occasion in Canada. Also, in 1883 there was a centennial loyalist march in New Brunswick. I haven't been able to find any evidence of a bicentennial march though.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
That's great man, but you're still being a conscending dick to others.

The only insulting one is YOU.
Oh FFS!

Which part of play the Ball was unclear?

It isn't like you haven't been reminded of this in the past.


See ya in 7
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
We began a discussion about the first couple decades after the Revolution, it extended into the early 19th century, then into the late 19th, then into the early 20th and then the late 20th when the USA finally became a democracy for a few decades. I won't go into it any more as the moderator has forbidden it, but the whole discussion is political as it is a political subject from the get go. Trying to bring this back to the original discussion, I was merely making the point that the US always struggled to be a democracy because of a strong white supremacist strain in its politics.
..and you had done so well in getting people to over-react to you without crossing the line. Couldn't resist the Parthian Shot.

Always resist the Parthian Shot.
 
So yeah.........






...something slightly OT yet slightly related:

When did loyalism in the US die off as mainstream politics anyway? Right after the revolution or War of 1812, or was there still a large pro-monarchy population in the US after those wars still?
 
I can't imagine it as visible presence in US culture or politics initially or even lasting at all, except behind closed doors, and then that too would fade away. I think because the war had been too bitter, too long, with the Four Horsemen making 50,000 dead (multiply by 2x or 3x for wounded), that their was no space for the opposing and losing side to have an accommodated visible presence in the newly recognised United States. After all 100,000 Crown-Loyalist left after the war was over. As an example of the impossibility of having a Crown-Loyal accommodated visible presence in the USA, would be the hunting down and extermination of Crown-Loyalist Refugee and Partisan units operating in the Southern USA, after the Paris Treaty had been signed in 1783. This parallels the destruction of the Polish Home Army and the Ukrainian Nationalist units by the Soviets Post 1945, when the war was over. No peace or post war presence allowed for them, except that of the grave.
 
So far as Loyalism as a political force, well it was a dead letter by 1784 when the majority of the Loyalists fled or were driven from their properties in the aftermath of the Revolution and the remaining people who were even tepidly loyal to the Crown switched allegiances in order to not be persecuted by the winning side. As for memories of who was loyal to who? Well if Canada is anything to go by, that kind of grudge would have lasted till the 1830s, especially if the family in question had people who took up arms for the Crown and remained, but that would be a small, small minority.

However, I would think the solidification of national identity that followed the War of 1812 and the burgeoning "Canadian" and solid "American" national identities to emerge would have swept away those feelings. The growing divide between North and South largely eclipsed that of who fought for the Crown and who didn't by 1850 as those who directly fought in the Revolution died off.
 
I can't imagine it as visible presence in US culture or politics initially or even lasting at all, except behind closed doors, and then that too would fade away. I think because the war had been too bitter, too long, with the Four Horsemen making 50,000 dead (multiply by 2x or 3x for wounded), that their was no space for the opposing and losing side to have an accommodated visible presence in the newly recognised United States. After all 100,000 Crown-Loyalist left after the war was over. As an example of the impossibility of having a Crown-Loyal accommodated visible presence in the USA, would be the hunting down and extermination of Crown-Loyalist Refugee and Partisan units operating in the Southern USA, after the Paris Treaty had been signed in 1783. This parallels the destruction of the Polish Home Army and the Ukrainian Nationalist units by the Soviets Post 1945, when the war was over. No peace or post war presence allowed for them, except that of the grave.

Reading this late at night I realised this needed tidying up:

I cannot imagine it as visible presence in US culture or politics initially or even lasting at all, except behind closed doors, and then that too would fade away. I think because the war had been too bitter, too long, with the Four Horsemen making 50,000 dead (multiply by 2x or 3x for wounded), that there was no space for the opposing and losing side to have an accommodated visible presence in the newly recognised United States. For example after the war 100,000 American Crown-Loyalists left America, as they felt they could not live in the land of their birth anymore.

After the war ended with 1783 Paris Treaty, there is given to us a further example, of the impossibility of having a Crown-Loyal accommodated visible presence in the newly recognised United States, the example being the hunting down and massacre of Crown-Loyalist Refugee and Partisan units that had operated in the Southern rebel Colony's during the war. Even after the Crown defeat at Yortown, when both sides knew that the Motherland had lost the war, Crown-Loyalist Refugee, Associators, Ranger & Partisan units operating deep behind rebel-lines were still finding Loyal Americans volunteering to serve in their ranks. This being the equivalent of a death sentence.

(A historical parallel can be found in the destruction of the Polish Home Army and the Ukrainian Nationalist units by the Soviet Red Army and Chekists post-1945, when the Second War was over.)

For Americans who were Crown-Loyalists: No peace or post-war presence would be allowed for them, except that of the grave.
 
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