How isolated was Columbus in his geographical ignorance?

How isolated was Columbus in his belief that a westward path to the orient was optimal?

  • very isolated, most thought getting to the east via the west was silly

    Votes: 8 27.6%
  • in line with a majority of 1400s and 1500s explorers

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • in line with half the explorers and and geographers, disbelieved by the other half

    Votes: 3 10.3%
  • very isolated, still explorers seek a passage to Asia because a sea route could be good even if long

    Votes: 16 55.2%

  • Total voters
    29

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
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There’s been a frequent statement about Columbus that the biggest reason he had difficulty finding sponsors was that almost every other geographer had a more accurate estimate of the size of the earth which made a go west to get east route seem impractically long.


Is this true?



Poll:



How isolated was Columbus in his belief that a westward path to the orient was optimal?



a) very isolated, most thought getting to the east via the west was silly

b) in line with a majority of 1400s and 1500s explorers

c) in line with half the explorers and and geographers, disbelieved by the other half

d) very isolated, nonetheless explorers sought a northwest passage to Asia because a water route could be valuable, even if very long


Vespucci is given credit for recognizing America as a separate continent, unrelated to Eurasia, while Columbus believed and claimed he had reached Asia to his dying day, thinking Cuba was Cipangu and Honduras was Indochina.



Fair enough. But how can we square the idea that Columbus was uniquely in error about the size of the earth with the beliefs of other explorers that China could be found via America, or at least would not be far beyond a “northwest passage” which sailors kept searching for into the 17th century, 150 years after Columbus’s death, Magellan’s circumnavigation and Portuguese eastbound voyages to China, the Moluccas and Japan?

Examples:



I think Cabot believed he reached “northern Tartary” when he got to Newfoundland and Labrador, indicating he did not perceive the earth as much larger than Columbus did.



As late as a generation after Columbus, the Spanish decided to call their rule over the Americas “The Law of the Indies”, and of course, the Indio name stuck to natives forever.



Cartier in the mid-1500s believed China was right around the corner, and accessible by going up the St. Lawrence. He named a place along the St. Lawrence river, “Le Chine”, feeling China lay not far beyond.



Corte-real might have had a northwest passage in mind when exploring Greenland and Labrador.



Hudson kept looking for a northwest passage and thought he might have reached it when he first entered the bay bearing his name in the 1600s.
 
Wasn't the problem that the route round the Horn of Africa kept you in relative proximity to land for the voyage, while Columbus' proposed voyage required blind faith that you'd find land before you ran out of supplies?
 
You're assuming he really believed it. I've seen arguments that he knew as well as anybody else the size of the world and just argued it was smaller to support his plan for a voyage. Columbus's estimate of the world was based on a misinterpretation of Ptolemy's numbers, a mistake that was noticed by Isabella's experts at the time. In my opinion he just argued in circles about the Earth's size on purpose to get his voyage funded. He was an experienced navigator, I find it unlikely he'd make and stick by a mistake like that without a reason. Basically, he lied.

Also Columbus knew how to calculate latitude using celestial techniques, something that doesn't work if have the wrong size Earth.
 
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There's the size of the earth but there's also the question of the position and size of East Asia and Japan in particular.
 

Lusitania

Donor
We forget that at time only the Portuguese knew of around Africa route. It had been discovered in 1492 and the point where the two oceans met was named "Cabo de Boa Espetança" which translated to Cape of Good Hope.

Portuguese kept the news to themselves and we're busy planning Vasco da Gama trip so they had no time for Columbus.

Secondly since Portuguese settlement in the Azores news of strange wood and other material washing ashore led Portuguese government to reason land existed off to the west.
 
IIRC, you must start from Columbus' belief and total confidence that there was land at that precise distance, that latitude. Perhaps he got it from perusing the Viking Sagas, Brendan Voyage etc. Perhaps he had portolans etc from the Basque fishermen shovelling Cod off the Grand Banks. Perhaps a storm-wracked ship had drifted all the way to the Caribbean; careened, repaired, it came back on the Gulf Stream...

Whatever, he was so very, very sure that, IIRC, his ships only kept a look-out for land for a few days before sighting it...

Snag was, unto his death-bed, he thought he was travelling to islands off Asia. But the only way that could be true was if the Earth was so much smaller than the Alexandrians determined...

Sad, really.
 
IIRC, you must start from Columbus' belief and total confidence that there was land at that precise distance, that latitude. Perhaps he got it from perusing the Viking Sagas, Brendan Voyage etc. Perhaps he had portolans etc from the Basque fishermen shovelling Cod off the Grand Banks. Perhaps a storm-wracked ship had drifted all the way to the Caribbean; careened, repaired, it came back on the Gulf Stream...

Whatever, he was so very, very sure that, IIRC, his ships only kept a look-out for land for a few days before sighting it...

Snag was, unto his death-bed, he thought he was travelling to islands off Asia. But the only way that could be true was if the Earth was so much smaller than the Alexandrians determined...

Sad, really.

Or if China was bigger/further east than commonly thought.
 

Anderman

Donor
IIRC, you must start from Columbus' belief and total confidence that there was land at that precise distance, that latitude. Perhaps he got it from perusing the Viking Sagas, Brendan Voyage etc. Perhaps he had portolans etc from the Basque fishermen shovelling Cod off the Grand Banks. Perhaps a storm-wracked ship had drifted all the way to the Caribbean; careened, repaired, it came back on the Gulf Stream...

Whatever, he was so very, very sure that, IIRC, his ships only kept a look-out for land for a few days before sighting it...

Snag was, unto his death-bed, he thought he was travelling to islands off Asia. But the only way that could be true was if the Earth was so much smaller than the Alexandrians determined...

Sad, really.

Well Columbus was searching for a seaway to india and not looking for land far away iirc. Even if he was hopping for land then was hopping that this land mass was to much of an obstacle to get to india too.
 
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