How far would you have to go back to prevent the following words from existing?

How plausible would it be for societies around the world to reach a present day technology level without the following words, or words with near-identical meanings, existing in any language? And how far back would the POD have to be?

Religion
Science
Technology
Education
Athletics
Economics
Family
Mathematics
Logic
Humor
Emotion
Corporation
Nature
Supernatural
Literal
Father
Dating
Lawyer
Private
Psychopath
Profanity
Adolescent
Stock (market)
Distinction between royalty and dictatorship

I know it's a big list, so don't feel obligated to comment on all of them. Just pick out a few that seem interesting, and speculate on what would be the implications of not having a word for that, and not conceptualizing it as a natural category. Have fun!
 
Religion: I doubt that there is any way avoid such word when such thing would occur eventually. Humans just are going believe to some spiritual things.

Science: This is quiet hard. Probably you would need such POD where religions remain so strong that there wouldn't occur scienting thinking.

Technology: What ever this mean. Any mechanic equipment can be refined as technology even if very archaic.

Father: Impossible when you have use some term about male parent. But if we talk about religious meaning probably any pre-Christian POD is enough.

Lawyer: Not sure if you can avoid that. Probably some kind of lawyers are going occur at some point if there is just some highly advanced civilisation.
 
Thanks for the quick response, @Lalli . Those are good insights. I agree that those would be pretty hard to prevent with any recent POD, and even with an ancient POD they might not be possible. Perhaps, though, an alien civilization could develop without some of these concepts, while still having a complex culture and advanced technology.
 
If you mean in their original Latin and Greek roots? Have the Persians Iranise the Greek peninsula more than in actual history, doing away with half the Greek words here. The Romans don't acquire Greek but rather Persian influence. To eliminate the Latin words, have the Celts migrate to Italy instead of the Balkans and more permanently settle there to then fully conquer Rome. They were the first people to sack Rome ever after all, a feat that wouldn't be achieved again until the Visigoths with Alaric. Latin is replaced with Celtic (Gaullish in particular) and so these words no longer exist either.
 
How hard would it be to prevent the concepts of corporation and stock?

According to Wikipedia, joint stock companies existed during the Roman Republic.


Even if you don't count that, a joint stock company existed in Toulouse in 1250.


And in Sweden in 1288


The oldest continuously working company is Japanese, and dates to 578AD



So, the answer is "pretty damn far", especially since a "corporation" is just a group of people who conduct some manner of business and have some kind of legal recognition.

 

Schnozzberry

Gone Fishin'
The biggest problem here is that many of these things will almost certainly come about through the development of human society and if they exist, there's a good chance there'll be a term for it. In order to prevent a word for science existing, for example, you'd basically have eliminate the very concept of science, and good luck getting anywhere close to a modern technology level without even possessing the concept of science.

And it continues with many of the other words. Take family, a concept which has existed since far prehistory and holds importance in most, if not all, human societies. How would something like that not have a word for it?
 
@Analytical Engine Wow, it goes back a lot farther than I imagined. I guess that makes sense, since a corporation doesn't need to have the complex management structure and global reach that I usually associate with the word corporation. I appreciate the research you did. I guess many of the concepts I listed are not quite as arbitrary or artificial as I had assumed, and even if they are artificial, they still exist for a reason.
 
Religion: I doubt that there is any way avoid such word when such thing would occur eventually. Humans just are going believe to some spiritual things.
I definitely agree, at least with the second part. Any society is almost certainly going to have religious practices, and a vocabulary for discussing them, even if it takes the form of an atheist religion. However, what I was going for (and admittedly, I didn't do a good job of clarifying it) was the modern concept of religion that exists in at least some countries, particularly those where the Abrahamic religions are prevalent. Now, I can only speak for one small corner of the world (namely the southeastern US) and one small segment of society, but within the limited part of the world I am familiar with, religion is often treated as a well-defined sphere of society that is very important but not absolutely essential. Even if "separation of church and state" is often little more than empty words, the fact that many governments at least posit such a principle reveals an assumption that it is, in fact, possible to separate church and state. Is it plausible that, without human extinction or medieval stasis, the world could have developed in such a way that the overwhelming majority of people, including the educated elite of wealthy countries, would laugh or stare in disbelief at the idea of separation of church and state? In other words, it would sound as absurd as "separation of government and politics" or "separation of aircraft and aviation" would sound to us. That is what I mean by a world without "religion". It would be a world where everything is religion, and at the same time, nothing is. Is this the way the world once was, or has there always been a more-or-less secular sphere of society, even if that sphere was rather marginal? And if this is the way it was, then can that worldview be sustained? Moreover, can the opposite worldview be sustained, where the life is partitioned into the religious and the secular? Or is that paradigm destined for collapse?

The same questions apply to some of the other concepts I listed, like nature, emotion, and science. If science was not treated as a distinct social sphere, but rather something that is omnipresent, then there might not be an explicit concept of science, because there would be nothing to contrast it with.
 

The word "science" only acquired its modern connotations in the 18th/19th centuries; before that, "science" simply referred to any organised body of knowledge (so one might talk of the "science of" philosophy, theology, whatever). So you could probably keep the word's broader meaning as the main one without affecting technological progress much; what we call science would just have to be called "natural science" or whatever to distinguish it from all the other sciences.

Nature
Supernatural

An animist society, or a pagan society with lots of nature deities, might not see a clear distinction between the natural and supernatural realms. Though I don't think that such a society would be likely to develop modern science: it's kind of hard to develop a system of replicable experiments if there are a load of spirits messing around with natural phenomena.


This is another case where the word itself is old, but the concept its applied to is much narrower nowadays. In olden times, "literal" meant "whatever a text is intended to mean" -- which might well be something symbolic or allegorical. Augustine's On the Literal Meaning of Genesis spends considerable time arguing against (what we would call) Biblical literalism. I suspect that a society which keeps this meaning of "literal" would be more comfortable with allegory, at least in certain contexts, and less likely to assume that the literal meaning of a text or utterance is the obviously correct (in the sense of, obviously what the text means/author meant) one. This would probably butterfly away movements such as Christian fundamentalism (at least in its modern American form), New Atheism, and the like.


The practice of assigning a date to something, or the practice of seeing someone romantically? If the latter, a cultural change so that arranged marriages are the norm should be enough to remove the concept.

Psychopath

Probably butterflying away modern psychiatry would do this.

Distinction between royalty and dictatorship

I guess a society which believes that success is ipso facto a sign of divine favour, and hence that whoever has the ability to enforce his rule is the legitimate monarch, might not recognise such a distinction. Though such a society would probably prove too unstable to develop modern levels of wealth and technology.
 
@Fabius Maximus Thank you so much for your insightful commentary. Those are all good points.

As for dating, I was indeed referring to romance. I remember talking to a friend in college who said that they didn't really have dating in her culture, at least not in the sense that I'm used to. Instead, people just get married. So I suppose it's not too much of a stretch to apply that system worldwide. If society wanted to get rid of romance and eroticism entirely, I suppose that could happen if evolution had taken a different turn, or if romantic and sexual impulses were curbed using drugs, eugenics, and cybernetics. (The Giver used the first two, and quite possibly the third.)

As for the monarch-dictator distinction, you make a good point in that dictator has a pejorative connotation, implying injustice, and illegitimacy, while monarch is more rhetorically neutral. However, when I included it in the list, I wasn't really referring to the legitimate-illegitimate distinction, which is probably necessary for any society that doesn't intend to become a train wreck. I apologize for the confusion - I should have elaborated more, instead of just posting a list of words with no context. What I mean by the monarch-dictatorship distinction is something that parallels the religious-secular distinction. A "monarch" is not necessarily a legitimate ruler, but rather a particular kind of ruler whose claim to power rests on some sort of cultural or religious tradition. A monarch can be a dictator, a figurehead, or anywhere in between, but the non-dictatorial monarchs are usually the inheritors of an office that was once held by a dictator. The more I try to define the difference between an absolute monarch and a republican dictator, the more idiosyncratic the distinction seems, since any simple rule is likely to have exceptions. Perhaps a decent rule of thumb is the pretense of democracy. Republican dictators typically try to boost their legitimacy through rigged elections, parliaments full of yes-men, and propaganda about how they represent the will of the people. They may even claim that the dictatorship will exist only for the duration of the current emergency. A royal dictator, or absolute monarch, might still make use of these tactics, but is more likely to try to stabilize the realm by making pilgrimages, praying publicly, preaching about how you will go to hell if you don't obey, and most importantly, wearing fancy hats.

With that in mind, how plausible would it be for such a distinction to never arise, or to fade out of use? Did this distinction begin with the early Romans, and their contempt for the word "rex" because of its association with Tarquin the Proud and his regime? Or is it older than that?

I'd also like to hear people's thoughts on the questions about religion that I posted up above, if that's not too much trouble. Anyway, thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread.
 
Lawyer: Not sure if you can avoid that. Probably some kind of lawyers are going occur at some point if there is just some highly advanced civilisation.

I am not sure... I think you can have pretty complex societies without lawyers. Did lawyers exist among the Incas, for example? Were there lawyers in medieval China, for example? In the Ottoman empire before 1700? In classical Athens I think people just defend their inocence or their rights by themselves, if I am not wrong.
 
I am not sure... I think you can have pretty complex societies without lawyers. Did lawyers exist among the Incas, for example? Were there lawyers in medieval China, for example? In the Ottoman empire before 1700? In classical Athens I think people just defend their inocence or their rights by themselves, if I am not wrong.

Lawyers' only work is not defend in court. They are experts of law and can be advisors on law issues. If there is any kind of society with some codified legal system there will be lawyers too.
 
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