How far the Germans can into the Americas?

As the title says above,can Germany(or Prussia,or god-knows what nation,the HRE is also allowed) into the Americas,and establishes a LONG lasting colony(that maybe stays like French Guyana/declared independence A'la Mexico?)

If its can,what POD should be taken?
And what flavour of germany? What era this probably can work?,and what region they should take?
 

Tyr Anazasi

Banned
The first German colony in America was Venezuela, which was given to the Welser family as payment for loans. The colony was seized again, as the govenors were corrupt. So if they didn't it might be possible that Klein Venedig stays a Welser colony. However, that would not last forever. Either they would really found a German state there, likely as part of the HRE, or another power would take over. If it was a German one only Kurland and Brandenburg are possible candidates. The others were not willing or interested. However, both states were in danger because of the potent neighbours. Because of that both programs finally failed as money needed was used elsewhere (army). If at least in a forseeable future a profit could be seen, it might have changed the situation.
 
The first German colony in America was Venezuela, which was given to the Welser family as payment for loans. The colony was seized again, as the govenors were corrupt. So if they didn't it might be possible that Klein Venedig stays a Welser colony. However, that would not last forever. Either they would really found a German state there, likely as part of the HRE, or another power would take over. If it was a German one only Kurland and Brandenburg are possible candidates. The others were not willing or interested. However, both states were in danger because of the potent neighbours. Because of that both programs finally failed as money needed was used elsewhere (army). If at least in a forseeable future a profit could be seen, it might have changed the situation.

It would more likely stay an oddity in Spanish orbit. The Welser family's charter for colonization existed at Emperor Charles V's pleasure when it really came down to it. Remember this was back when private and state holdings as we think of them today were really muddy and more based off feudal notions of rights and fealty.
 
I have a couple of thoughts
Have the Hanseatic League set up some trading posts along the Atlantic coast of North America. Those that do well expand.
Have the Catholic League do much better in the 30 years war making the American Hansa colonies looks like a better place to live.
 
A stronger German victory in the Franco-Prussian War could give them those colonies. Everyone expected France would be forced to make territorial concessions and Prussia could have easily demanded some of France's overseas territories in the Americas possibly as coaling stations for the German navy. I could seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_II,_German_Emperor Wilhelm II encouraging heavy immigration to the province to ensure it remained in German hands.
 
A stronger German victory in the Franco-Prussian War could give them those colonies. Everyone expected France would be forced to make territorial concessions and Prussia could have easily demanded some of France's overseas territories in the Americas possibly as coaling stations for the German navy.
Britain and the USA say "No". End of that idea.
 
Britain and the USA say "No". End of that idea.

They'd be probably relatively fine with something like German Guyana. Germany is less of naval power than France at this point, so arguably less of a threat in terms of power projection. But it's very difficult to see why Germany could possibly want French Guyana in the first place, especially with Bimarck in charge, or, if somehow they take it, what use can Berlin have for the land. It is not terribly well suited for a European settler colony.
 
As the title says above,can Germany(or Prussia,or god-knows what nation,the HRE is also allowed) into the Americas,and establishes a LONG lasting colony(that maybe stays like French Guyana/declared independence A'la Mexico?)

French Guiana is not a colony but a département d'Outre-mer. Those who live there have EXACTLY the same rights and the same duties as those who live in Mainland France.

A stronger German victory in the Franco-Prussian War could give them those colonies. Everyone expected France would be forced to make territorial concessions and Prussia could have easily demanded some of France's overseas territories in the Americas possibly as coaling stations for the German navy. I could seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_II,_German_Emperor Wilhelm II encouraging heavy immigration to the province to ensure it remained in German hands.

The French paid a huge amount of money to Germany, I don't think they would had accepted to give some of their colonies...
And why French territories? Strange that no one here think about a German North America in the Prairies. The Germans settled all the Northern part of the USA and they constituted a large majority.
 
If Great Britain, was supported by a German state for example, Prussia or Hessian, during the American Revolution and won, a region or territory may be given to a them, forming a Germerican state or kingdom?
 
French Guiana is not a colony but a département d'Outre-mer. Those who live there have EXACTLY the same rights and the same duties as those who live in Mainland France.

The French paid a huge amount of money to Germany, I don't think they would had accepted to give some of their colonies...
And why French territories? Strange that no one here think about a German North America in the Prairies. The Germans settled all the Northern part of the USA and they constituted a large majority.

French Guiana only became a département d'Outre-mer in 1945. And if the Germans took control they would definitely consider it a colony.

How on earth would Germany gain control of US territory? Most German settlers had no love for the rulers of their homeland and were well respected, enfranchised, and successful in America. By the time Germany forms the US had already decided regions couldn't secede, a prospect made more difficult as regions you're talking about are all well away from the sea where Germany could support them. To create a successful German separatist movement within North America would require major changes to both German and American history.
 
French Guiana only became a département d'Outre-mer in 1945. And if the Germans took control they would definitely consider it a colony.

How on earth would Germany gain control of US territory? Most German settlers had no love for the rulers of their homeland and were well respected, enfranchised, and successful in America. By the time Germany forms the US had already decided regions couldn't secede, a prospect made more difficult as regions you're talking about are all well away from the sea where Germany could support them. To create a successful German separatist movement within North America would require major changes to both German and American history.

You don't understand what I meant. I was thinking of a new German-speaking country in North America (that could possibly includes the OTL states of North & South Dakota, Minnesota, Winsconsin, Iowa and Montana) totally independent from the German Empire. Thousands of German and Scandinavian settlers could had established a Germanic state based on Germanic values. It's possible to imagine a growing resentment against Washington, exactly as has happened with the Southern states.
 
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You don't understand what I meant. I was thinking of a new German-speaking country in North America (that could possibly includes the OTL states of North & South Dakota, Minnesota, Winsconsin, Iowa and Montana) totally independent from the German Empire. Thousands of German and Scandinavian settlers could had established a Germanic state based on Germanic values. It's possible to imagine a growing resentment against Washington, exactly as has happened with the Southern states.

You could have a German Texas? Or Germany helps the Confederate States of America and are given land in gratitude :D
 

katchen

Banned
Try a Papal settlement of the Spanish Succession in which France gets all or most of Spain (maybe Portugal gets Galicia and Extremaduera to keep it happy and the HRE gets Andalusia to guarantee it's access to the Atlantic from the Med and even out the balance of power) while the Holy Roman Empire gets Spain's American Empire--and the HRE accepts that settlement!
It would be a very difficult adjustment for the HRE to become a colonial power.The Spanish Fleet would have to go to the HRE as part of the settlement. Frankly, given that the HRE is dominated by Austria, much of the colonial action will be centered around the Italian cities, particularly Venice, Trieste and Fiume--possibly also Genoa, Livorno and La Spezia for strategic reasons and Oostend and Bruges in the Austrian Netherlands (Antwerp is blockaded).
But the Austrians will not be able to hog everything. I can see German princes getting concessions in hitherto unsettled coasts. Prussia in Texas to Tampico? Oldenburg in Bahia Blanca? Bremen in Buenos Aires? Hamburg on the Orinocco? Or Hamburg in Darien? Someone else gets Florida?
Lots of possibilities here, if the settlement holds and the British are forced to live with it. Though over time, they may fight it.
 
You could have a German Texas? Or Germany helps the Confederate States of America and are given land in gratitude :D

Not plausible at all. As I said, a new German-speaking country in North America would probably be independent.

P.S: I read many threads about invented countries in the Americas but it's always in an non-English-speaking country (i.e. Canada or the USA). Maybe because the vast majority here is either American or British, so it is inconceivable to imagine a smaller USA or a smaller Canada...
 
The French paid a huge amount of money to Germany, I don't think they would had accepted to give some of their colonies...

In the negotiations for the Treaty of Frankfurt, the French side offered Germany any of their colonies (other than Algeria, IIRC) if German would leave Alsace-Lorraine with France.
 
In the negotiations for the Treaty of Frankfurt, the French side offered Germany any of their colonies (other than Algeria, IIRC) if German would leave Alsace-Lorraine with France.

Out of curiosity, if Germany wanted Senegal for whatever reason, would Dakar have been ceded as well? IIRC, it was still formally a French commune, but of course, not part of Metropolitan France.
 
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