As it says on the tin, assuming the sovit's join the axis between 1939-1941 (if they can't be made to agree lets say Hitler gets shot in Paris or Danzig and Stalin falls down the stairs or does in the civil war.) how far into Africa (down the Egyptian neil river), India (through Pakistan and Bangladesh) and China (top-down invasion, Mongolia and sangking join as well) can all 4 axis powers go?
How far can a soviet, axis alliance push, in China, Africa, and India?
- Thread starter Pauh the federalist
- Start date
trurle
Banned
The China is definitely gutted. Not so much sure about India or Africa. Both Sahara and Himalayas are awfully good defensive areas, although for different reasons. Anyway, the main theater of war is still England and northern Atlantic, therefore i am not sure Axis/Soviet will seriously attack more difficult but less important India, not speaking about sub-Saharan Africa.
With the USSR the Axis can take Iran, the Near East, India and China without much trouble. Not sure about Africa, since the nazis didn't want to prioritize it and the Italians were too weak. But if there was no Russian front the reich could take Egypt and then push southward.
Btw I'm not sure how much of a contribution Soviet subs might've made in the Battle of the Atlantic. If the USSR entered the war by say, July 1940, they might've caused Britain a fair amount of extra trouble.
Btw I'm not sure how much of a contribution Soviet subs might've made in the Battle of the Atlantic. If the USSR entered the war by say, July 1940, they might've caused Britain a fair amount of extra trouble.
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Yeah but the problem is, Britain didn't have a great deal of strength available to defend India, or the Near East--nothing compared to the Soviet hordes. Assuming the USSR was fighting with the axis a year before the US entered the war, in the OTL, it could've been over before US strength had a chance to make a difference.
Derek Pullem
Donor
Logistics.
Axis + Soviets still have rubbish navies.
Bet they could hope for is Iran, North Africa and the Levant.
Are Japan in this "Axis" too - because if they are they are going to have a lot of arguments with the Russians on who gets what in China
Axis + Soviets still have rubbish navies.
Bet they could hope for is Iran, North Africa and the Levant.
Are Japan in this "Axis" too - because if they are they are going to have a lot of arguments with the Russians on who gets what in China
Better remember that in 39-40 the general capacity of the Red Army was more or less on par with the italian army only with a worse air force and a navy barely worth the name, all thanks to Uncle Joe paranoia, plus with the URSS in the Axis Italy will stay out and probably try to stop Soviet in roads in the Balkans.
The mighty steamroller that we know happened due to the destruction of the previous army and Stalin finally understanding that he needed an efficient army due to the Nazi desire to erase from existence the population of european russia
The mighty steamroller that we know happened due to the destruction of the previous army and Stalin finally understanding that he needed an efficient army due to the Nazi desire to erase from existence the population of european russia
Yeah but that will probably change after the British inflict one or two devastating defeats on Central Asia or the Middle East, if not from a need to survive, at least from a great sense of shame. Plus, the USSR still has all those resources and oil that Germany and Japan would appreciate.
For real changes you had needed the Winter War and Barbarossa, so while i agree that in the end will adapt it will not a quick thing and the will to fight to defend your country from a genocidal enemy doesn't translate in the will to advance through horrible terrain at rate similar to the WWI italian front.
Plus there is Baku and his oil field and refinery, while not war winning, severly damage that installation mean really slowing the soviet capacity and in general the red air forces and air defense was nothing to wrote about at the time
This is probably the key. Even if France is not invaded (which seems shockingly unlikely) they lack the combat power in 1939-41 to contest a combined Reich/Soviet land force. I am less sure that the combined force could reach the Raj before one or the other dictators slides a blade into the other ribs.
This is, of course a complete fantasy, given Hitler's near pathological hatred of Communists, Slavs and Jews (which in his perverse belief system merged into one less than human foe).
thaddeus
Donor
there was some speculation at the time of joint Italian-Soviet move against Turkey https://news.google.com/newspapers?...g=1997,3847789&dq=356-wounded+11-planes&hl=en
based on time frame it would preempt Winter War, and based on the threat to Turkish Straits more likely to draw Allied response?
Late in 1940 the nazis, unable to subdue Britain directly, did in fact try to get the USSR to join the Axis. Had Stalin done so, they probably would've waited until the British Empire was finished before turning on Russia.
Now this will be interesting... @Zheng He ,here is the #TeamMacKinder vs #TeamMahan matchup we were waiting for!
This is basically a clash between the "heartland" and "rimland" nations in MacKinder's theory.
This is basically a clash between the "heartland" and "rimland" nations in MacKinder's theory.
that could still take a while given that neither Germany or the USSR are sea powers.
Would this lead to an fascist or communist government being installed in Iran? If they can conquer or threaten the Persian Gulf, they would have sway over a massive portion of the world's oil. Thanks to the tyranny of distance, Germany would probably still be dependent on Soviet cooperation for access to oil in Iran, Iraq, and Kuwait.
At this point in history the US was not just self-sufficient but also an oil exporter, and Indonesia and Latin America could provide energy resources for much of the free world as well. This conflict may create a more pressing need for nuclear power if this Mackinderian/Nazbol Soviet-Axis coalition wants to squeeze the world economy.
At this point in history the US was not just self-sufficient but also an oil exporter, and Indonesia and Latin America could provide energy resources for much of the free world as well. This conflict may create a more pressing need for nuclear power if this Mackinderian/Nazbol Soviet-Axis coalition wants to squeeze the world economy.
I don't think the USSR would've had a great deal of difficulty taking Iran and India. Look what it was able to accomplish in August Storm.
Right a stalemate in the sense that the Axis, even with the USSR, may not be able to conquer Britain itself. But Axis victory would've been overwhelming even if it wasn't 100%.
Wrong. If Hitler is more strategic then a Soviet-German alliance can come about. Hitler could be convinced to wait it out in his war against the Soviet Union, at least until the Western Allies were defeated or reached an armistice. Then, once the Axis won, he could lead his war against the Soviet Union.
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