How does the civil war proceed if Lee at the Alamo really happened?

There were a few who did just this, however; there was at least one RA officer who fought at 1st Bull Run with the U.S. Forces and then, essentially, deserted and ended up with rebels, and quite a few former rebels who took the oath and became "galvanized." Interesting example is EW Gantt, who commanded a rebel regiment from Arkansas, surrendered with McCown's force at Island Number 10, and then declared for the U.S.

I don't think that is really possible here. Lee isn't just another officer. ATL, he is THE face of Unionism. He started the war even before Lincoln took office! Lee's face is being illuminated in torchlight recruiting parades from Minnesota to Maine. He is certainly being denounced as a traitor in Confederate newspapers and by Confederate politicians from Richmond to New Orleans.

Especially given Lee burning the supplies on a technicality. Confederate press and political opinion was not given to nuance or even to fair analysis of the facts Which means that Lee has probably been publicly denounced as a scoundrel and a cheat, including by prominent Virginia figures and newspapers. In fact, there's a reasonable chance that the Virginia secession convention passes a resolution denouncing him. Under those circumstances, the South wouldn't have him and there is no chance in hell that he would offer, because his dander would be up. When Lee got his dander up, look out!

As if that weren't enough, there is the fact that his exposure to the Confederacy is Ben McCulloch and his gambling, drinking rowdies. Lee now sees the Confederacy through the lens of blackguards and ruffians. Who don't understand honor or obey the law (Lee is clear in his mind that McCulloch acted before secession actually had been legally enacted and is also clear in his mind that absent a declaration of war, a seceded Texas had no right to attack his command).

As a final factor, remember that Lee is loyal to his officers and soldiers almost to a fault. ATL, Lee seems to have already developed a special relationship to the rock-solid Union-loyal Thomas, so that's going to draw him.

Basically, given the events described in 'Lee at the Alamo,' I see very, very little chance that Lee would ever consider taking a Confederate commission and very little chance that one would ever be offered to him.
 
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So let's say Lee ends up with Grant, Sherman and good old George Thomas under his command. Does the war out west go faster or slower then OTL and how does he get along with his subordinates?
 
I fully agree. His newer novels aren't as enjoyable as the older ones.

I stopped reading his War That Came Early series. It seemed like each chapter was about a soldier sitting in a trench feeling a great need for rest, a cigarette, and a visit to a brothel. Turtledove would just rotate through the combatants with this same theme. He dragged this out for so long that I completely lost interest.

That said, "Lee at the Alamo" is a good story and worth reading.

Yeah, I read it a few years ago. It was good. Unfortunately, I've gone through the anthologies of any quality.

Not much else is out there but fantasy/time travel/etc AH's and I don't care for those.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Certainly unlikely, but I was just pointing out it

I don't think that is really possible here. Lee isn't just another officer. ATL, he is THE face of Unionism. He started the war even before Lincoln took office! Lee's face is being illuminated in torchlight recruiting parades from Minnesota to Maine. He is certainly being denounced as a traitor in Confederate newspapers and by Confederate politicians from Richmond to New Orleans.

Especially given his little technicality about burning the supplies. Confederate press and political opinion was not given to nuance or even to fair analysis of the facts Which means that he has probably been denounced as a scoundrel and a cheat too, including by prominent Virginia figures and newspapers. In fact, there's a reasonable chance that the Virginia secession convention passes a resolution denouncing him. Under those circumstances, the South wouldn't have him and there is no chance in hell that he would offer, because his dander would be up.

As if that weren't enough, there is the fact that his exposure to the Confederacy is Ben McCulloch and his gambling, drinking rowdies. Lee now sees the Confederacy through the lens of blackguards and ruffians. Who don't understand honor or obey the law (Lee is clear in his mind that McCulloch acted before secession actually had been legally enacted and is also clear in his mind that absent a declaration of war, a seceded Texas had no right to attack his command).

As a final factor, remember that Lee is loyal to his officers and soldiers almost to a fault. ATL, Lee seems to have already developed a special relationship to the rock-solid Union-loyal Thomas, so that's going to draw him.

Basically, given the events described in 'Lee at the Alamo,' I see very, very little chance that Lee would ever consider taking a Confederate commission and very little chance that one would ever be offered to him.

Certainly unlikely in the scenario of the story, but I was just pointing out it happened.

Best,
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Sure - the Galvanized Yankees are an interesting

Thanks, it was good information that I wasn't aware of.

Sure - the Galvanized Yankees are an interesting story; ~6000 organized as such in the 1st - 6th USV Infantry, and many more in standard "state" USV regiments, both officially and unofficially.

Best,
 
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