How do you stop WWI?

Admitting a mistake

Probably because you've not given a concrete rationale as to why it absolutely HAS to be a POD after 1900 ?

I suppose your right. Mostly I just wanted to avoid too many butterflys. :eek:

I'll just abandon the 1900 thing, it just limits me really. Feel free to explore the latter part of the 19th century for possibilities as well. :D
 
I've got a couple of points. First, Victoria detested Wilhelm. Second, I think your best POD is to have the father of Wilhelm II live. I can't remember his name right off, but he died very young, and could easily have survived his terminal sickness. He was an Anglophile, and, more importantly, did not believe, as Wilhelm did, that Germany needed colonies for glory. If he (Frederick feels like his name) had become Kaiser, Germany would likely have been a more liberal society, and less threatening to the rest of Europe, and after all, it was German bellicosity which led to the alliance system which ultimately led to the war.
 
Austro-Russian Detente

I believe this was the mutual policy 1897-1907 disrupted by the Bosnian Crisis. What if a more astute Austria (could they be less astute?) continues this prudent policy?

1907-1908: Independence for Bulgaria, status quo in Bosnia and the Sanjak
1909: Austria agrees to the expansion of a pro-Russian Bulgaria if Russia eschews Serbia.
1910:Russia arms and trains the Bulgarians
1911: Italian-Ottman War embarrasses the Turks
1912: First Balkan War. The Ottomans beaten in Europe by Serbia, Greece and Bulgaria.
1913: Second Balkan War: Serbia and Bulgaria fall out over the spoils. Bulgaria wins big absorbing Macedonia. An independent Albania is formed. Bosnia is a protectorate of Austria-Hungary.
1914: Defeated and isolated, Serbia reaches an accomodation with Austria- Hungary.

With Serbia cowed, Austria-Hungary is less dependent upon Germany. Perhaps she doesn't care if the Russians take the Straits eventually using Bulgaria as a proxy. They manage a concession through Macedonia to complete their Salonika Railroad project.

Germany even more isolated, pursues less antagonistic polices to make friends....with Britain?

Whaddya Think?
 
If Frederick III had reigned as the German Emperor into the 20th Century, than its possible that he would have maintained the Germany's alliance with Russia instead of breaking it like his son Wilhelm II did (ending that alliance is what pushed Russia to seek and alliance with France).
Frederick III admired the British constitution. He also wasn't unstable like Wilhelm II (a damaged arm didn't help much either) who tutored by Bismarck for much of his life with little influence from his parents.
Without Germany to back them up with a blank check in 1914, Austria may have been less determined to make war on an equally aggressive Serbia.

Had Frederick III had live much longer, we may have seen a different Germany entering the 20th century than we actually did.
 
I think the First Moroccan Crisis is a good place to start. France reached agreements in 1904 with Britain and Spain granting the French control over Morocco. This was met with the hostility of Germany, who took immediate diplomatic action to block the plans from going into effect, with the Kaiser going to Morocco. He made remarks described as an "open door" speech in favour of Moroccan independence.

Germany sought a international conference where the French could be called to account before other European sovereigns. French premier was interested in a compromise solution, but soon refused as French public opinion turned against Germany and the British lent their support to the French position.

Now if handled quickly before the public really got into it, we may not see Britian and France get closer, as well as Germany getting the idea that Austria will be it's ally only if it is backed up. Italy will be given a step into international talks concerning new lands, so it may not have the need to stay with the Central Powers, for its population was never really in favor of the alliance, and it did so over France getting more land in Tunisa.

Now with Germany seeing Austria-Hungary as an ally, but not one it has to shackle itself to, France talking and not posturing about Germany, the UK not taking sides, and Italy not having to choose between two historic competitors, there is the ability to move about. Germany can say "screw you" to AH, the UK can see the conflict and simply sit back and recall nations come to it to settle disputes, and France may just get to see the Germans not as mortal enemies but a nation close by.

The sooner the nations of the world think in realpolitik the sooner WWI can be avoided. Now this isn't saying a war will not happen, just not the war to end all wars.
 
If Frederick III had reigned as the German Emperor into the 20th Century, than its possible that he would have maintained the Germany's alliance with Russia instead of breaking it like his son Wilhelm II did (ending that alliance is what pushed Russia to seek and alliance with France).
Frederick III admired the British constitution. He also wasn't unstable like Wilhelm II (a damaged arm didn't help much either) who tutored by Bismarck for much of his life with little influence from his parents.
Without Germany to back them up with a blank check in 1914, Austria may have been less determined to make war on an equally aggressive Serbia.

Had Frederick III had live much longer, we may have seen a different Germany entering the 20th century than we actually did.

I am aware of Frederick III and was going to bring up the idea myself.

Perhaps combining it with Tsar ALexander II surviving and creating a more liberal, democratic Russian Empire would have interesting consequences :cool:
 
Just to clarify, the reason I like the idea of using Frederick III as the POD, is that by 1910 Europe was a powderkeg. By 1914, if Ferdinand had not been assassinated, something else would have set off the war. It is a good argument that by 1905 or so the war was already inevitable.
 
Just to clarify, the reason I like the idea of using Frederick III as the POD, is that by 1910 Europe was a powderkeg. By 1914, if Ferdinand had not been assassinated, something else would have set off the war. It is a good argument that by 1905 or so the war was already inevitable.

I disagree. While some sort of war had to happen, one on OTL scale was not inevitable. As has been shown in this thread there are a myriad of ways the Great War could have been avoided.

However, using Frederick III does sound good :cool:
 
Is anyone there? :(:(:(

Not usually ;)

Over Christmas was at my parents so could come on and offline at will, though on a 56kbps dial-up which doubles as the phone line

The rest of the time I can only come online from the library so am limited by their openng hours, which of course are a bit less than usual over the holidays, and are not full-time as its only a small town I live in

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
The rest of the time I can only come online from the library so am limited by their openng hours, which of course are a bit less than usual over the holidays, and are not full-time as its only a small town I live in

Best Regards
Grey Wolf


I have the same problem
 
Behold my Internet powers and tremble!!!

The rest of the time I can only come online from the library so am limited by their openng hours, which of course are a bit less than usual over the holidays, and are not full-time as its only a small town I live in

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

Bwa ha ha, all ye beware for I have 24/7 broadband internet access. No hour on this forum is safe from the constant posting of Baggins!!!!!
...
Oh dear :eek:... I think I went a bit over the top there huh?
 
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Bwa ha ha, all ye beware for I have 24/7 broadband internet access. No hour on this forum is safe from the constant posting of Baggins!!!!!
...
Oh dear :eek:... I think I went a bit over the top there huh?

It was probably in character for Bilbo, LOL !

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
You will be vanquished

It was probably in character for Bilbo, LOL !

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

What? You think I'm Bilbo Baggins? :mad:

I am the supreme dictator Baggins! Ruler of the Shire Empire, master of the Brandywine river! Such an insult! Tremble, for now my hobbit armies muster for war against you Grey Wolf. You will be crushed beneath our armoured pony cavalry, our eagle air force will tear you to shreds, you will be battered and bruised by volleys of pebbles. Prepare yourself for the crusade begins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
...
Oh dear not again :eek:

I warned you I was insane.

Someone please suggest an idea before I lose it again. :D
 
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About the inevitability of war by 1910, it has been pretty well documented that in all the capitals of the warring countries, the onset of war was greeted with great (and stupid) popular excitement. So I tend to agree with the view that Europe wanted war, and was going to get it even if over a pretext other than the archduke's assassination.

But it's still so nice to imagine being able to avoid the war. It seems like the best way is for the main personalities (esp. of Wilhelm II) to be different enough to make a different strategic direction feasible. For me, that would be for Germany to quit building the big battleships that put Britain into a panic. Maybe even allow British naval observers a free pass into the German naval bases-- it sounds ridiculous, but since the OTL German naval program never produced surface ships that could challenge the British navy anyway, it could have made Germany a benign enough presence in English eyes that they wouldn't have overcome the spats and jealousies with France as they did given the OTL looming German threat.
 
Oh-- for anyone interested in this, there's novella by Saki, around 1910, called "When William Came". Very nice snapshot of what the belligerent Germans looked like through imperial(ist) English eyes at the time. Much more fun to read than some monograph on "The German image in Edwardian public opinion", since Saki was such a humorous writer. Too bad he died in WWI.
 
Oh-- for anyone interested in this, there's novella by Saki, around 1910, called "When William Came". Very nice snapshot of what the belligerent Germans looked like through imperial(ist) English eyes at the time. Much more fun to read than some monograph on "The German image in Edwardian public opinion", since Saki was such a humorous writer. Too bad he died in WWI.

I think I've heard of that. Something to do with Germany conquering Britain right? It sounds fun but probably not very realistic. Might look for it on Amazon though.

Anymore suggestions?
 
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