How do we prevent the Spanish from gaining Luzon

How do we prevent the Spanish from gaining Luzon

This is basically how, what we need is for one of the factions in the Civil war after the death of Soliman I without Spanish help..

the factions were:
-Lakandula's faction - Bolkiah
-Soliman's faction - Bolkiah
The two got split after the death of Soliman I
-Balagtas' faction - Majapahit, descended from the last ruler of the Majapahit and the rival royal house against the Bolkiah, they fled from Majapahit after it was disestablished.

These three factions claim the title Lakan and Rajah of the Tagalogs title..

If one of these three defeats the other two without help from the Spanish, then the Island would be as safe as Mindanao from Spanish conquest.
 
Last edited:
Give the Dutch a reason and more ability to screw with the Spanish in Luzon?

Although the that would have a chance to expel Spain, the OP asked for prevention.

Does the Dutch even have the power to challenge Spain in Asia 1565 or before? I mean William of Orange hasn't rebelled yet when the Spanish were already established in the Philippines.
 
Although the that would have a chance to expel Spain, the OP asked for prevention.

Does the Dutch even have the power to challenge Spain in Asia 1565 or before? I mean William of Orange hasn't rebelled yet when the Spanish were already established in the Philippines.

Basically, I am not asking, what I am doing is a counter-factual scenario, but the problem with a surviving Tondo is that they need to reform if they are to retain all of Luzon/Saludang and keep it from the Spanish rule or else they would lose half of the lowlands of Luzon from the Spanish like what happened to Mindanao but I think Tondo would have a better fighting chance against the Spanish especially if they get help from a rival, the Dutch or the English perhaps.
 
Basically, I am not asking, what I am doing is a counter-factual scenario, but the problem with a surviving Tondo is that they need to reform if they are to retain all of Luzon/Saludang and keep it from the Spanish rule or else they would lose half of the lowlands of Luzon from the Spanish like what happened to Mindanao but I think Tondo would have a better fighting chance against the Spanish especially if they get help from a rival, the Dutch or the English perhaps.

When did the Dutch and English arrived? The point being if the pod or changes happens after 1565, it is not anymore prevention but expelling the Spanish.

having the locals being control of Luzon when the Spanish arrived changes the dynamics. Luzon wasn't Muslim which would change how Spain and Luzon states would treat each other. There is also the mentality of the people. Brunei is a conqueror being replaced by another conqueror. Why would an ordinary citizen of one of the Luzon states spill blood in behalf of protecting the interests of Brunei? Vs Spain invading non Brunei Luzon, their own government, their own way of life.

Spain is still beatable even with the tech disparity. You just got to outsmart them much like how lapu lapu did it. Of course this would only happen if there is no diplomatic way to peace. However, I won't see a war between Spain and tondo if Brunei invasion is butterflied away. If the Spanish do invade even with the changes, it would be decades before the Dutch and English can even help Luzon states.
 
When did the Dutch and English arrived? The point being if the pod or changes happens after 1565, it is not anymore prevention but expelling the Spanish.

having the locals being control of Luzon when the Spanish arrived changes the dynamics. Luzon wasn't Muslim which would change how Spain and Luzon states would treat each other. There is also the mentality of the people. Brunei is a conqueror being replaced by another conqueror. Why would an ordinary citizen of one of the Luzon states spill blood in behalf of protecting the interests of Brunei? Vs Spain invading non Brunei Luzon, their own government, their own way of life.

Spain is still beatable even with the tech disparity. You just got to outsmart them much like how lapu lapu did it. Of course this would only happen if there is no diplomatic way to peace. However, I won't see a war between Spain and tondo if Brunei invasion is butterflied away. If the Spanish do invade even with the changes, it would be decades before the Dutch and English can even help Luzon states.

An Independent Luzon (whether a non Bolkiah or an Independent Cadet Bolkiah)would do what the Mindanaoans did in OTL because the rulers would care for their people compared to the rulers installed by Brunei who only cared for their Dynasty like the Habsburgs did, the Igorots and Mangyans were not conquered, the Isnags and Ibaloi are a model to how a surviving Tondo would look like in culture because Isnags and Ibaloi were Lowlanders in culture and their outfits remained similar to the Bruneian and Tondo eras.

The Known Kingdoms in Luzon were
-Namayan
-Kaboloan(Pangasinan)
-Kumintang
-Tondo(Kingdom of Tondo)

Tondo was the Mother/Master state for these three countries

City States
-Faru(Aparri)
-Lihan(Malolos)
-Bigan

The direct rule/subordination of Tondo in Northern Luzon is limited in city states such as Faru(Aparri) and Bigan etc and the Kingdom of Kaboloan and the territory of Ituy, I think the same is true for Bicolandia.
 
Last edited:
How do we prevent the Spanish from gaining Luzon

This is basically how, what we need is for one of the factions in the Civil war after the death of Soliman I without Spanish help..

the factions were:
-Lakandula's faction - Bolkiah
-Soliman's faction - Bolkiah
The two got split after the death of Rajah Aceh/Matanda
-Balagtas' faction - Majapahit, descended from the last ruler of the Majapahit and the rival royal house against the Bolkiah, they fled from Majapahit after it was disestablished.

These three factions claim the title Lakan and Rajah of the Tagalogs title..

If one of these three defeats the other two without help from the Spanish, then the Island would be as safe as Mindanao from Spanish conquest.

Just have the Spaniards delay from coming in the Visayas region for another 20 years so that in Luzon, these factions could consolidate themselves against European invasion. Factionalism was the reason on why the Spaniards were able to conquer Luzon.
 
Just have the Spaniards delay from coming in the Visayas region for another 20 years so that in Luzon, these factions could consolidate themselves against European invasion. Factionalism was the reason on why the Spaniards were able to conquer Luzon.

Which is why we need for one of them to really win before the Spanish come.
 
*sighs*

okay, the best way to do this is to get the Spaniards to avoid our islands entirely, blown off-course to Taiwan.

that way, the Spanish get their Chinese trade outpost and the islands known IOTL as the Philippines can develop for a few more decades unhindered.
 
*sighs*

okay, the best way to do this is to get the Spaniards to avoid our islands entirely, blown off-course to Taiwan.

that way, the Spanish get their Chinese trade outpost and the islands known IOTL as the Philippines can develop for a few more decades unhindered.

The same goes for Brunei. Brunei delayed the possible fusing of Luzon into one state since that gave more complex situations that there are factions in favor Brunei and introduced a new religion.

If there is a Muslim state or Muslim vassal in the south that has a prosperous trading port, those trigger happy conquistadores will be given a reason to invade. Even if Spain would be redirected to Formosa, brunei's presence in Luzon will give a bullseye target for Spain.
 
well I did say for a few decades. (and it could be more, since Philip II was less inclined towards conquest and glory than his father.)

The same goes for Brunei. Brunei delayed the possible fusing of Luzon into one state since that gave more complex situations that there are factions in favor Brunei and introduced a new religion.

If there is a Muslim state or Muslim vassal in the south that has a prosperous trading port, those trigger happy conquistadores will be given a reason to invade. Even if Spain would be redirected to Formosa, brunei's presence in Luzon will give a bullseye target for Spain.

The Castille War proves otherwise.

In any case, this whole thing butterflies away the Philippines.
 
The same goes for Brunei. Brunei delayed the possible fusing of Luzon into one state since that gave more complex situations that there are factions in favor Brunei and introduced a new religion.

If there is a Muslim state or Muslim vassal in the south that has a prosperous trading port, those trigger happy conquistadores will be given a reason to invade. Even if Spain would be redirected to Formosa, brunei's presence in Luzon will give a bullseye target for Spain.

well I did say for a few decades. (and it could be more, since Philip II was less inclined towards conquest and glory than his father.)



The Castille War proves otherwise.

In any case, this whole thing butterflies away the Philippines.

Tondo needs to reform, I think the Kingdom of Tondo needs to be an actual Kingdom rather than a Confederacy composed of Semi Independent Substates(Kumintang, Kaboloan and Namayan) and City States like Lihan, Faru(Aparri) and Bigan etc.. ruled under Tondo, The Maguindanao Sultanate did quite centralize and its subordinates , the Lanao Sultanates and the Mountain Tribes of Mindanao were loyal subjects/vassals of the Sultan of Maguindanao.

I think if Brunei did not attack Tondo or Tondo is ruled by an independent minded ruler from the Bolkiahs or Majapahit, they would reform into a more Centralised state like Maguindanao did.

The Majapahit refugees who ruled Namayan would also be independent minded if they won and ruled Tondo and make it into a Neo-Majapahit state, A Neo-Majapahit Luzon would be interesting.
 
Tondo needs to reform, I think the Kingdom of Tondo needs to be an actual Kingdom rather than a Confederacy composed of Semi Independent Substates(Kumintang, Kaboloan and Namayan) and City States like Lihan, Faru(Aparri) and Bigan etc.. ruled under Tondo, The Maguindanao Sultanate did quite centralize and its subordinates , the Lanao Sultanates and the Mountain Tribes of Mindanao were loyal subjects/vassals of the Sultan of Maguindanao.

I think if Brunei did not attack Tondo or Tondo is ruled by an independent minded ruler from the Bolkiahs or Majapahit, they would reform into a more Centralised state like Maguindanao did.

The Majapahit refugees who ruled Namayan would also be independent minded if they won and ruled Tondo and make it into a Neo-Majapahit state, A Neo-Majapahit Luzon would be interesting.

perhaps it's just that i haven't read enough sources on the political situation of prehispanic Philippines which causes me to doubt the plausibility of these scenarios, so could I have a few references please?

:):):)
 
Last edited:
Actually, it is obvious that no one in Luzon wanted the Spanish nor the Bruneians in Luzon, Soliman/Sulayman is the only Bolkiah who was able to please the people in Luzon, what we need is for someone to expel the Bruneians in Luzon like the people in Sulu did or we need someone like Sulayman.

The Majapahit claimants did have support because they were supported by the populace but were weak against the Bolkiahs but the war became tripartite when Rajah Soliman I died and Rajah Aceh(and his nephew Sulayman) and Lakandula became enemies and Lakandula gained the Spanish support against his nephew...so what we need is for a pagan to expel these Bruneians or someone that would unite the Muslims in Manila and the pagans in the rest of the Luzon or Saludang.
 
Last edited:
The only thing that would happen to Luzon if the Spanish did not conquer it is that the Bolkiahs would be expelled indefinitely, you need to have it happen before the Spanish notices it.
 
Top