How do we prevent France...

from becoming the "battleground of Europe"?

One thing I've noticed about France's population is that it's quite small for a nation its size (it's a bit larger than Germany, and even post-WWII Germany has a larger population), so I assume that all the wars (Hundred Years' War - WWII) took their toll.

...oooh.

When I saw "prevent France" I thought "Yes! Yes indeed! Let's prevent France!" What a disappointment.
 
I'm gonna push back here. Louis XIV, by the War of Spanish Succession, was actually open to compromise. Look at the various plans to partition the Empire before the war.
Do you have some link of this ? Could be a good POD. :)
 

Maur

Banned
from becoming the "battleground of Europe"?

One thing I've noticed about France's population is that it's quite small for a nation its size (it's a bit larger than Germany, and even post-WWII Germany has a larger population), so I assume that all the wars (Hundred Years' War - WWII) took their toll.
Wrong assumption.

1. It's not low. It's normal. It's the Germany that has high population.
2. It's not effect of wars, but of low birthrates.

I don't get the laughter.

Here's a question I have. Between 1500 and 1789, France doesn't really threaten Europe with hegemony, despite this population. Was this because it was hitting under its weight, or is Napoleonic and Revolutionary France a time when a confluence of factors made France hit above its weight.
Uh eh? It constantly does, unless it's embroiled in civil /religious/ war? Since, let's see, XVIc till Napoleon.
 
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Apparently. I guess the worst excesses of the Thirty Years War, wars of Louis XIV, and Revolutionary France were all actually committed inside the French frontier.

Not inside French frontiers of that time. Low Countries, Germany and, to a lesser extent, Poland and Hungary were all more involved in wars over their soil than France did, and Italy was pretty much a battleground too.
France was a major theatre of war only in comparison with Spain, England or Sweden.
 

archaeogeek

Banned
...oooh.

When I saw "prevent France" I thought "Yes! Yes indeed! Let's prevent France!" What a disappointment.

That would be a pretty huge thing to do a timeline of; I mean... Without France so many of the wars of the 12th to the 18th century are completely changed or can't happen because so much of western european wars, politics and diplomacy was the effect of France's growth from a small corner of Gaul to conquering most of it...
 

Susano

Banned
That would be a pretty huge thing to do a timeline of; I mean... Without France so many of the wars of the 12th to the 18th century are completely changed or can't happen because so much of western european wars, politics and diplomacy was the effect of France's growth from a small corner of Gaul to conquering most of it...

One idea I always liked was to have France and Germany, the West and the East Frankish Realm, to de facto exchange roles: The western realm gains the imperial dignity (and hence also North Italy), French monarchs constantly cross the Alps to keep up order in both parts of their Empire and have to give up ever more power to the local nobles, and in the end we have a fragmented HRE in France and Italy. Meanwhile, the Eastern Realm starts out weak, but due to clever politics the King of Germany gradually assumes direct control of more and more land as royal domain, until Germany is centralised. (and speaking of which it was the French Royal Domain which grew from being a small corner, not France :p )

A neat idea, but similarily the consequences would be way too huge for a TL.
 
from becoming the "battleground of Europe"?

One thing I've noticed about France's population is that it's quite small for a nation its size (it's a bit larger than Germany, and even post-WWII Germany has a larger population), so I assume that all the wars (Hundred Years' War - WWII) took their toll.

Was France really "the battleground of europe"?
Germany, northern Italy, Hungary and Bosnia-Serbia could claim that title just as well.
Most regions have seen their fair share of wars , exept for those really peripherical or protected by geography (Scandinavia, Switzerland, England).
And if you were really unlucky (Ireland) even those two didn't help.


I would blame Frances lower population density mostly on:
- heavy centralisation led to a weak economy in the "provinces"
- some areas (Bretagne, Massive Central) are just bad farming land
 
Lol at your stupidity from Louis XIV reign to Revoulution France was never invaded the battles were outside France and most French victories were thanks to Sebastion de Vaubon, he created Parrelel trenches saving many lives of Frenchman leading to victories he also constructed 300 forts of immense beuty and power offering maximum defense on any sort of Terrain that prevented any power from Landing on even 1 foot of French soil and helped expand French borders...... Only time France was the battleground was during hundred years war afterword hardly any power invaded French heartland due to superb French army.... With the forts completed by Vaubon France became an impenetrable fortress...
 
from becoming the "battleground of Europe"?
One idea that always attracted me was that France could have concentrated
her attention on the New World, while getting proportionally
less involved in european wars. That way France
could have avoided the social disruption that ended up exploding on
the French revolution, and at the same time getting rid (by systematic
deportation of hotheads and rabble-rousers) of the de-stabilizing elements
in French society. As a by-product, we might have two Frances in
the XIXth century and later: One republic in the new world
(Where today is the Lousiana) and a constitutional kingdom in Europe...
 

archaeogeek

Banned
Was France really "the battleground of europe"?
Germany, northern Italy, Hungary and Bosnia-Serbia could claim that title just as well.
Most regions have seen their fair share of wars , exept for those really peripherical or protected by geography (Scandinavia, Switzerland, England).
And if you were really unlucky (Ireland) even those two didn't help.


I would blame Frances lower population density mostly on:
- heavy centralisation led to a weak economy in the "provinces"
- some areas (Bretagne, Massive Central) are just bad farming land

Brittany always had higher than average density and still has.
 
Yes, thats due to fishery and ports I guess.
But It could have an even higher population if it combined that with better farming land (like the Italian coast and the North Sea coast from Lille to Hamburg).
 
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