How did Turkey retain the Goeben?

What the title says. After World War 1 Germany and Austria-Hungary ultimately surrendered all their dreadnoughts. Goeben was a fast modern capital ship who had caused the Entente consternation on a strategic level for years. But somehow this German crewed ship was seemingly ignored when the Ottoman empire was subjected to a multinational occupation and survived a civil war intact. As another example of what happened to capital ships in the Black Sea at the end of WW1, the dreadnought battleship Volia was built by the Russians but captured and brought into service with a German crew in a (similar to the badly damaged Yavuz) semi-operational condition. The Volia was promptly seized by the British at the end of WW1. I can image all sorts of alternate history fates for the ex-Goeben (expended as target practice? joins Wrangel's fleet?) but surviving to be rebuilt by the Turkish navy is arguably weirder than any of those. Why didn't the Germans scuttle the Yavuz when the Ottomans surrendered? Why didn't the Ottomans destroy the ship themselves? Why didn't the British/French/Italians/Greeks seize the ship? How did it survive the Turkish War of Independence?
 

Dave Shoup

Banned
What the title says. After World War 1 Germany and Austria-Hungary ultimately surrendered all their dreadnoughts. Goeben was a fast modern capital ship who had caused the Entente consternation on a strategic level for years. But somehow this German crewed ship was seemingly ignored when the Ottoman empire was subjected to a multinational occupation and survived a civil war intact. As another example of what happened to capital ships in the Black Sea at the end of WW1, the dreadnought battleship Volia was built by the Russians but captured and brought into service with a German crew in a (similar to the badly damaged Yavuz) semi-operational condition. The Volia was promptly seized by the British at the end of WW1. I can image all sorts of alternate history fates for the ex-Goeben (expended as target practice? joins Wrangel's fleet?) but surviving to be rebuilt by the Turkish navy is arguably weirder than any of those. Why didn't the Germans scuttle the Yavuz when the Ottomans surrendered? Why didn't the Ottomans destroy the ship themselves? Why didn't the British/French/Italians/Greeks seize the ship? How did it survive the Turkish War of Independence?

Given the fairly dizzying amount of potential PODs in Turkish history between 1915 and 1922, "all sorts of fates" is certainly a possibility, but the historical reality is the Turks - unlike the Austrians and Germans - had kept fighting in 1918, essentially. After the Dardanelles, the British and French chose simply to support the Greeks, rather than deploy an expeditionary force large enough to make a difference. After the Dumlupınar, the Greeks were done as well, so Yavuz remained in Turkish hands, albeit non-operational until after her postwar refit finished in 1930.
 
What the title says. After World War 1 Germany and Austria-Hungary ultimately surrendered all their dreadnoughts.
Austria-Hungary actually surrendered its Navy to the State of Slovenes, Croats, and Serbs, which later merged with Serbia to form Yugoslavia. So technically the Entente nicked the fleet from their allies. Which makes the case of the Yavuz even weirder.
 
Technically it was surrendered with the rest of the fleet, aside from 7 sloops and 6 torpedo boats to the allies in accordance with article 181 of the treaty of Sevres. Then the ships were returned to Turkey under the terms of the treaty of Lausanne. And that's about it.
 
If Goeben wasn’t a prize worth caring about, why wasn’t the High Seas Fleet permitted to retain (for example) the Seydlitz?
Because the Seydlitz was scuttled by the HSF at Scapa Flow?

The Entente was a lot angrier with Germany than with Turkey. The still wanted Goeben handed over to the British, it was in the Treaty of Sevres, she was part of the Ottoman fleet under the guns of the Entente but given back with the Treaty of Lausanne. She was basically worth only scrap to the Entente, and there was a glut of scrap with all the other ships being gotten rid of, and they wanted to end the situation with Turkey ASAP
 
Technically it was surrendered with the rest of the fleet, aside from 7 sloops and 6 torpedo boats to the allies in accordance with article 181 of the treaty of Sevres. Then the ships were returned to Turkey under the terms of the treaty of Lausanne. And that's about it.

Was it “technically” surrendered or was it actually ever physically in the possession of the Allies?

Because the Seydlitz was scuttled by the HSF at Scapa Flow?

But that happened because the Seydlitz was interned at Scapa Flow for months from November of 1918. Goeben wasn’t sailed to Malta in an analogous fashion.

But if I interpret the rest of your post right, she was guarded by Allied ships and eventually used as a token in negotiations with Turkey?
 
Was it “technically” surrendered or was it actually ever physically in the possession of the Allies?

?

Izmit where Yavuz was anchored after the armistice, was under allied control, first the British then the Greek 16th Infantry regiment between July 1920 and June 1921. Of course at the time the ship was barely afloat from the damage it had received during the war.
 
But that happened because the Seydlitz was interned at Scapa Flow for months from November of 1918. Goeben wasn’t sailed to Malta in an analogous fashion.

But if I interpret the rest of your post right, she was guarded by Allied ships and eventually used as a token in negotiations with Turkey?
Regarding the HSF, if they hadn't scuttled at Scapa the Entente was prepared to let them retain the Nassau and possibly Helgoland class battleships, but Scapa made the Entente angry and want to replace the ships they lost, so Germany got even older ships to compensate

I'm fairly certain the Entente controlled her during the war. Not sure she was actually negotiated over rather than just given back
 
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