How did Islam integrate polytheism (like Catholicism converting gods to saints)?

Only working with Arab sources is opening yourself up to a sort of bias that to me seems equivalent if lesser than the bias of those who only work with western sources to understand Arab history.

Expansionism and low intensity raiding a lot brought vast material gains and as you say fit into the pattern of Arab tribal warfare in pre-Islamic Arabia. This alone is pragmatic interest - war as the Umayyads waged it was very profitable and its costs in exhaustion were often easily overlooked or difficult to see in the face of massive immediate financial gain. Conquering in the name of religion was often a primary motice, but I believe it was equally often a secondary motive, especially among those groups which were at the periphery.

I wasn't responding just to you when I claimed the Umayyads weren't exceptionally bloody, but the thread as a whole.
 
@John7755 يوحنا : maybe the Umayyad collapse is connected to their expansionist nature. Expansionism can't last forever and at one point consolidation is needed to be able to expand further or to expand at all. Not to mention that there are very worldly limitations to expansion too, like logistics, communications etc.

I agree completely and you are correct. What you are saying is the key to Islamic history from the 700s-1000s AD.
 
Only working with Arab sources is opening yourself up to a sort of bias that to me seems equivalent if lesser than the bias of those who only work with western sources to understand Arab history.

Expansionism and low intensity raiding a lot brought vast material gains and as you say fit into the pattern of Arab tribal warfare in pre-Islamic Arabia. This alone is pragmatic interest - war as the Umayyads waged it was very profitable and its costs in exhaustion were often easily overlooked or difficult to see in the face of massive immediate financial gain. Conquering in the name of religion was often a primary motice, but I believe it was equally often a secondary motive, especially among those groups which were at the periphery.

I wasn't responding just to you when I claimed the Umayyads weren't exceptionally bloody, but the thread as a whole.

Oh I agree, I am completely open and admit bias in my information. But I operate only within Arab sources or other similar Mid Eastern sources. It is simply what I do.
 
Polytheism? M8 we destroyed our old Gods. We destroyed the statues of Manat, Al-lat and Al Uzzah. Especially all the statues that used to be around the Kaabah.
 
Polytheism? M8 we destroyed our old Gods. We destroyed the statues of Manat, Al-lat and Al Uzzah. Especially all the statues that used to be around the Kaabah.

Of course. However, I took this question to refer to the obvious effect that some pre Islamic beliefs had on Shi'i of the Ghulat and Mu'Tazila. As well, as some beliefs amongst the Arab, as reported by many of the Ulema, of holding beliefs that are not Islamic, such as ruh being within an object as opposed to being held by Allah.
 
Plenty in India and the East Indies.

Right, but it took a while to spread that far IIRC, and it's not like a lot of Christian missionary efforts around the same time since there was a powerful state backing it, meaning it could afford not to assimilate as much.
 
The closest thing (and its a total stretch) would probably be the Yazidi worshipping Melek Taus who could easily be conflated with the djinn Iblis, from what little I understand of that, but they're neither Arab nor Muslim, so besides the point.
 

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@John7755 يوحنا : maybe the Umayyad collapse is connected to their expansionist nature. Expansionism can't last forever and at one point consolidation is needed to be able to expand further or to expand at all. Not to mention that there are very worldly limitations to expansion too, like logistics, communications etc.
This kind of reasoning only makes sense if one assumes that the Ummayad Empire fell apart. It didn't. Some of the periphery was shaved away, particularly the Ummayad Princes in Spain, but the empire as a whole just changed dynasties. This successor state was the one that continually declined, fragmented, and fell apart, but that had very little to do with its expansionary nature and instead the character of its rule and the role of its Caliph.
 
Where in Islam, in the Arab world, do you find Djinn as gods?

I think you're misinterpreting his point. In the realms of pre-modern European Christiandom, nobody interpreted fairies, elves, brownies, domovoi, kobolds, or monaciello as gods either. The point is that any lingering pagan stuff was relegated to folk belief after the arrival of monotheism.
 
This is an interesting topic and one I've often thought about. I think in order to really see the pre-Islamic elements that have persisted in post-Islamic cultures, you have to look on a case-by-case basis. Here in Xinjiang (and Central Asia on a grander scale), there are a lot of folk beliefs that have persisted:

1. The festival of Nowruz (New Light) is celebrated by Iranic and Turkic cultures throughout the region as a new year celebration. It originated in Persian Zoroastrianism.

2. Tajik and Uyghur weddings in southern Xinjiang often include an element of carrying the bride over a fire. This seems to be a Zoroastrian rite (but not quite sure).

3. Kazakhs and Kyrgyz eat horse meat despite Muslims in other regions considering it to be haram, and reconcile drinking fermented horse milk even though it contains alcohol.

4. Several toponyms contain references to Tengri, the sky god of the ancient Altaic peoples.

5. Women in Turpan wear clothing patterned with a lotus, even though the lotus is not native to that region. This seems to be a relic of their Buddhist past.

6. There is a superstition of placing dropped or spoiled naan in a high place, as it is considered blasphemous to discard it carelessly.
 
Where in Islam, in the Arab world, do you find Djinn as gods?
The closest thing (and its a total stretch) would probably be the Yazidi worshipping Melek Taus who could easily be conflated with the djinn Iblis, from what little I understand of that, but they're neither Arab nor Muslim, so besides the point.
While literally the furthest away you can get from the Arab world while still being "in Islam," religion in the Indonesian North Malukan island of Tidore is a fairly obvious example of jinns being the Islamized form of local gods.

We know that pre-Islamic North Maluku had priests known as sowohi (from sou, meaning 'medicine'), who saw to magic and ritual and probably venerated local land gods. The Portuguese conquistador Galvao remarks that Malukan noble lineages kept "landmarks," these probably being sites sacred to the land gods. The coming of Islam, peaceful as it was, has little changed this situation. Indeed, some would argue that the only thing that has changed is that the gods are now jinns. The landmarks that Galvao discussed still exist in an Islamic setting, it is only that they are now sacred spots where people can communicate with and receive the blessings of a specific jinn. Just as 16th-century lineages had an obligation to keep these "landmarks," modern Tidorese extended families are bound in a near-permanent and reciprocal relationship with a jinn; in return for offerings, the jinn will grant the family its blessings and magical potency. The relics associated with jinn veneration are treated with extreme care. And even today, sowohis will burn incense and ask the jinn to grant its 'medicine' (sou).

Islamic reformists are trying to get rid of Tidorese jinn worship, unfortunately, considering it un-Islamic and superstitious. It's more than a little sad, IMO.
 
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