How could the French keep the Austrian Netherlands?

In the war of Austrian succession, France got all the way into the United Provinces, but Louis decided to return it. How can we get Louis to change his mind? Is it possible? What would be the consequences for France, the Southern Netherlands and the rest of Europe? Is it possible for France to take the area directly or would it go to some cadet branch of the Bourbons?
 
In the war of Austrian succession, France got all the way into the United Provinces, but Louis decided to return it. How can we get Louis to change his mind? Is it possible? What would be the consequences for France, the Southern Netherlands and the rest of Europe? Is it possible for France to take the area directly or would it go to some cadet branch of the Bourbons?

The best way to have It happen is Louis XV dying from illness and his son becoming king. There is already a very food TL on this on the site.

And these territories would be annexed, although ruled locally by some kind of general Governor, until It can be more integrated to France. That's how France did for centuries with the provinces that came under direct control of its king.
 
One of the major consequences is that France would have control of rich coal deposits and will be able to launch its industrial revolution earlier, in the same times as the British. Of course, it means a major opposition of the two powers in the future. As the Belgian aristocracy is very well connected to the French one and totally francophone, the annexation will go smoothly, especially if the local institutions are kept with minor modification inside the french administrative frame (the Governor will be a french, then a local, noble, the Ministre pléninpotentiaire will be a french Intendant, the Conseil d'État a Conseil supérieur, the Conseil des finances a Bureau des finances, and the various States will be kept as well).
 
The Austrian Netherlands were exchanged at Aix La Chapelle in return for Louisburg. To the British, the AN were much more important to have in allied hands (Dutch & Austrian) in order to maintain the balance of power in Europe.

Louisburg included fisheries if I recall, which were important to the French economy and trade. I think with the Brits insisting the AN are exchanged and French merchants pushing for the return of Louisburg, you'd have a hard time trying to get Louis to follow a different course of action.
 
The Austrian Netherlands were exchanged at Aix La Chapelle in return for Louisburg. To the British, the AN were much more important to have in allied hands (Dutch & Austrian) in order to maintain the balance of power in Europe.

Louisburg included fisheries if I recall, which were important to the French economy and trade. I think with the Brits insisting the AN are exchanged and French merchants pushing for the return of Louisburg, you'd have a hard time trying to get Louis to follow a different course of action.

Actually Madras (captured by France during the war) was exchanged for Louisbourg.

From what I understand, France agreed to return of the Austrian Netherlands in exchange for Austria agreeing to withdraw from from Italy.
 
Babette (Louise Élisabeth de France) was actually willing to do a territory swap - Parma for a kingdom in the Austrian Netherlands - in the 7YW. Her ambition pissed off her sister-in-law, Amalie of Saxony, since it was with the eye to this that Babette managed to pull of a match between her daughter, Isabella (who replaced Amalie's daughter, Maria José/Maria Luisa) and Josef II. However, once Babette died, her widower wasn't interested/ambitious enough to push the idea.

So, it's not unlikely that Louis XV/his son/his ministers could attempt to seal a Bourbon-Austrian treaty by giving up Parma and Tuscany in exchange for the AN. Britain would be pissed, Prussia's got what they want (Silesia), so they can't be bothered to get involved, Austria DOESN'T want the AN, and France DOES. Most likely, Britain will have to wait for a new war, since neither the Dutch nor the Russians are in any state to wage war, Spain's not interested in pissing off France, and Portugal has no interest in pissing off the Bourbon-bloc. Although, the Bourbon-Habsburg alliance would mean an earlier diplomatic revolution.
 
Say... how would the Seven Years War play in such a scenario?

Would the Flemish and Walloonians take French Domination is stride? Or would they rebel?
 
Say... how would the Seven Years War play in such a scenario?

Would the Flemish and Walloonians take French Domination is stride? Or would they rebel?
Could go both ways, the French are at this point still culturally the similar to most of the residents and the nobility will have no issue adopting the fashions at Versailles. On the other hand the Hapsburgs gave the place more autonomy which the French won't do just look at Brittany and Alsace Lorraine.
 
Could go both ways, the French are at this point still culturally the similar to most of the residents and the nobility will have no issue adopting the fashions at Versailles. On the other hand the Hapsburgs gave the place more autonomy which the French won't do just look at Brittany and Alsace Lorraine.
I can see Walloonia eventually getting incorporated successfully. But I think Flanders may be a much harder case.
 
ACtually, under the French Ancien regime, Alsace was considered 'a l'instar de l'etranger effectif'. Which means a very strong autonomy, including linguistic, legal (the french kings got the habsburg rights, so they kept the local structures, while adding a governorship on the top)
, fiscal (different customs and taxes than the rest of France) and religious one. Louis XIV was even subsidising a Protestant church in Strasbourg (to take care of the tomb of Maurice de Saxe). The Netherlands could be under the same regime.
 
So if they keep the ANL would the Diplomatic Revolution still happen? Or would the Anglo-Austrian alliance last? I imagine Maria Theresa would be unhappy about the British alliance seeing she lost the war with them and with Flanders gone there is no obstacle to a Franco-Austrian alliance.
 

raharris1973

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2 different scenarios are being discussed, as I read it:

1st one - France keeps the ANL in the WoTAS*, where it is Austria's enemy

France lost out here because it yielded what it occupied

2nd one - France, after the WoTAS, and after the Diplomatic Revolution of *allying* with Austria, make a voluntary trade to gain the ANL in exchange for Bourbon parts of Italy going to Austria.

The 2nd scenario was agreed to during the 7 Years War, but only briefly.

France lost out here because it didn't execute the swap while it was on offer (1756), leaving enough time for both parties to change their mind (1757 or 58).

Either one of the scenarios has different implications, any of which could be interesting (Matteo, do you recall the name of the TL about scenario #1?), although, since I prefer territory to trade hands via free exchange rather than conquest, I'd like to see the 2nd scenario developed too.

*WoTAS" - War of the Austrian Succession
 
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