How could Hungary keep all it's land?

Nocrazy

Banned
Okay, so, I was reading about Hungary during the Paris Peace Conference, and how Rumania, Czechoslovakia, and Yugoslavia all ganged up on it to take the land they claimed. I was wondering how could Hungary win this conflict?

Well, most importantly would be no Bela Kun. Heck, without a communist government, I would say a Hungarian Nationalist government would take power, and unite all the people of Hungary against the aggressors. I mean, Slovakia actually began to feel that it wasn't so bad being with the Magyars, as the Czechs weren't keeping their promise of Slovakian autonomy. Furthermore, the Serbs could also screw things up with the Croats, and most Croats in Hungary decide to stay in Hungary.

Course, there was always the issue of the Allies, mainly the French, wanting to keep Rumania strong to counter the Bolsheviks. We all know how that went, though. However, if there was a single, strong Hungarian nationalist, like Ataturk, (Let's not have Admiral Horthy) to unite the people of Hungary, then yes, I think we could see a similar result.

Of course, in the end, Hungary will have to deal with the issue of it's ethnic minorities, probably by actually giving them autonomy.

Could it have been possible for Hungary to keep it's land?
 
I don't see how it can be done with the peace conference as the POD.

It might be possible if the Central Powers had done better in World War One. That is they don't necessarily have to win, instead they have to do well enough to give them more negotiating power at the peace conference. However, that requires a POD during the Great War itself if not earlier.

The other way (which requires a POD before 1900) is to Magyarize enough of the population for Hungarians to be the majority in the territories it lost.

Again this requires a POD (hundreds of years) before 1900, but what if less was lost at Mohacs? The Kingdom of Croatia would still be lost, but Hungary would keep all the territory of the Kingdom of Hungary proper.
 
I mean, Slovakia actually began to feel that it wasn't so bad being with the Magyars, as the Czechs weren't keeping their promise of Slovakian autonomy.
Really? Even if Slovak nationalists were disappointed from not fulfilling wartime agreement about Slovak autonomy there was never really real thought about "was not so bad with the Magyars". Under Prague Slovak culture, art and education had its golden age we can say. Slovak High schools and universities were opened all over the place while under Magyars app. 2 million Slovaks didn't have single High School with last forcibly closed and its properties confiscated by Hungarian government in 60ties of 19th century. To have Slovaks really consider option you are talking about you need Hungarians to do much better on that field imuch early.

After all in 1938 Slovaks showed how they want to be with Magyars when they mobilized without problems. After Munich when Vienna agreement were dictated Slovak prime Minister called on central government in Prague to go to war with Hungary as Hungarian territorial requests went beyond ethnic borders.

In 1939 during march Small war Slovaks again show their desire how they want to go back with Magyars when they mobilized their unprepared army.

End of course Magyars showed how they can be trusted in their treatments of minorities after Horthy's speech in by then freshly regained town of Kosice - Kassa. He welcomed Hungarians but also Slovaks back in Hungarian kingdom and told Slovaks there nothing to be afraid off. Of course Slovak schools have been closed once again.

That's not how you gain support of huge minority. Prague had always much bigger support in Slovakia even in 1939 or 1992 then Hungarians could ever dream off.
 
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The other way (which requires a POD before 1900) is to Magyarize enough of the population for Hungarians to be the majority in the territories it lost.

Again this requires a POD (hundreds of years) before 1900.

With Slovaks in my opinion they needed another 25 years and they would basically succeed. As I said there was not single Slovak High School and even Slovak elementary schools had a lot of lessons in Hungarian. Most Slovaks who studied and went to Universities in Hungary very basically Hungarized and the few who went to study to Prague or other European cities usually didn't return.

So if WWI could be avoided for another 25 years pool of Slovaks in Hungary could be much smaller while Hungarian much bigger. Same with other minorities. Ruthens and maybe even Romanians.
 
There's no real way to keep all that land - or to unite all the peoples of Hungary - with such a late PoD.

Basically, for the idea of keeping the old borders to have even a chance with the Entente, it'd need Hungary to either rebel against the Habsburgs or create some kind of a provisional government in exile, like the Czecho-Slovak National Council. And for that, there would need to be a PoD way further back, something that avoids the Ausgleich of 1867 and makes the Hungarians just another disaffected minority in the Habsburg monarchy instead of a (relatively) privileged junior partner in the regime.

The problem is, that changes things so much WWI might not even happen, or happen in a very different way.
 

Nocrazy

Banned
I got the thinking that the Hungarians would try to create a Danube Federation of some kind. Of course, if the Croats realize how bad things will be for them in Yugoslavia, maybe by having Serbian troops massacre Croats in revenge for atrocities committed in Serbia, hell, the Croats might think of staying in something like that. Of course, even if Hungary managed to keep all it's land, it's still gonna have both the Soviet Union and Hitler to worry about.
 
I got the thinking that the Hungarians would try to create a Danube Federation of some kind. Of course, if the Croats realize how bad things will be for them in Yugoslavia, maybe by having Serbian troops massacre Croats in revenge for atrocities committed in Serbia, hell, the Croats might think of staying in something like that. Of course, even if Hungary managed to keep all it's land, it's still gonna have both the Soviet Union and Hitler to worry about.

I don't know, frankly if the Croats realize much earlier that Yugoslavia really is just another name for MegaSerbia it's more probable an attempt to cozy up with Italy...so to try to play both side against each other.
It's not that relations between Croats and Magyar were all that.
 

Lateknight

Banned
If they hadn't treated all there minorities like garbage they probably wouldn't have lost all that land.
 

Nocrazy

Banned
If they hadn't treated all there minorities like garbage they probably wouldn't have lost all that land.

Yeah, I guess so.

However, I actually read that a Slovakian leader, the one who founded the Slovakian populists, actually said that it wasn't so bad with the Magyars when the Czechs were moving in.

What I can see happening is that the Hungarians have a choice: either ally with the Croats and Slovakians against the Czechs and Serbs and Romanians, or just do what they've always done: oppress them.
 
Yeah, I guess so.

However, I actually read that a Slovakian leader, the one who founded the Slovakian populists, actually said that it wasn't so bad with the Magyars when the Czechs were moving in.

What I can see happening is that the Hungarians have a choice: either ally with the Croats and Slovakians against the Czechs and Serbs and Romanians, or just do what they've always done: oppress them.
Which one? Andrej Hlinka in 1918 said: "1000 year's of marriage with Hungarians is over and it's time for divorce." Later he may commented that Slovaks an Hungarians had more common than Slovak and Czechs but before his death he recommended his party to support Prague against Nazis and Hungarians. Of course at the end situation was different.
 

Nocrazy

Banned
Which one? Andrej Hlinka in 1918 said: "1000 year's of marriage with Hungarians is over and it's time for divorce." Later he may commented that Slovaks an Hungarians had more common than Slovak and Czechs but before his death he recommended his party to support Prague against Nazis and Hungarians. Of course at the end situation was different.

Yeah, that's the guy. See, my line of reasoning is that the only way the Hungarians could hold onto their territory is by creating a federation of equals between Magyars, Croats and Slovaks.

Of course, for this to work, the Hungarians will have to be HOLY-SHIT-MIND-CONTROL good at diplomacy. Course, they could always follow the reasoning of Yugoslavia being a threat to Croatian EXISTENCE, let alone the idea of an independent Croatia. The Hungarians would have to create the old idea of a United States of Greater Austria, but with slight changes, namely the title.
 
Yeah, that's the guy. See, my line of reasoning is that the only way the Hungarians could hold onto their territory is by creating a federation of equals between Magyars, Croats and Slovaks.

Of course, for this to work, the Hungarians will have to be HOLY-SHIT-MIND-CONTROL good at diplomacy. Course, they could always follow the reasoning of Yugoslavia being a threat to Croatian EXISTENCE, let alone the idea of an independent Croatia. The Hungarians would have to create the old idea of a United States of Greater Austria, but with slight changes, namely the title.

Which removes the whole point of HUNGARY as opposed to Austria-Hungary.

Seriously, most of the land they 'lost' had a Hungarian minority, and was only 'theirs' in their own minds.

To keep that land, they'd have to engage in massive ethnic cleansing.

They've had 60 or more years of poisoning relations with all non Magyars, they're not going to pull off a 'happy-happy-joy-joy' reconciliation with them at this point.
 

Nocrazy

Banned
Which removes the whole point of HUNGARY as opposed to Austria-Hungary.

Seriously, most of the land they 'lost' had a Hungarian minority, and was only 'theirs' in their own minds.

To keep that land, they'd have to engage in massive ethnic cleansing.

They've had 60 or more years of poisoning relations with all non Magyars, they're not going to pull off a 'happy-happy-joy-joy' reconciliation with them at this point.

Well, Hungary could just make it so the capital is in Budapest, but all the minorities have equal rights. It could make a Hungarian federation.
 
Well, Hungary could just make it so the capital is in Budapest, but all the minorities have equal rights. It could make a Hungarian federation.
You see minorities called for that for years. If Hungarians offered something like this before or during WWI, they would probably got full support. In October 1918 it was just too late.
 
Well, Hungary could just make it so the capital is in Budapest, but all the minorities have equal rights. It could make a Hungarian federation.

???
Seriously. They wanted a Hungarian nation. Hungarian language, culture, etc. They had since before 1848. What's the point of giving that up to gain a little more land?

Sure they could give up that dream and give all the minorities equal rights, but the US could go Communist, too. With the right Space Bat in charge.
 
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