How come the French don't really care about maintaining the family line to remain Catholic? Wasn't F

Griffith

Banned
This post I made in another thread explains the basics.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Christiani...e_us_why_are_catholics_more_likely_to/d3aqjau

In fact you might wnat to read the OP in that thread because it goes hand in hand with the main header question.

What exactly happen that made French culture as a whole apathetic to maintaining a family line to keep the Catholic tradition as opposed to Italians, Irish, Poles, Spanish speaking nations, and southern Germans? I mean in the above cultures even merely converting to another sect of Christianity or even a Catholic offshoot that disproves Papal authority such as the Old Catholic can warrant immediately disownment from the family. Even in America among Catholics who can trace their family from the time of the American Revolution, they have a bit of trouble with relatives converting to other Christian faiths. Not outright outcast from the family as say a typical traditional Mexican family would but definite disproval towards any child interested in Methodism or other sects.

Where as the French culture today are so indifferent about conversion to other faiths. So long as its a distinctly Western mainstream Christian religion such as Lutheranism and the Church of England I noted in my thread most French Catholics-including first generation immigrants to America- don't really care. Even my experience in Quebec seems to confirm French indifference towards religion.

Why is this? I mean weren't the French quite fanatical in the medieval ages with their defense of Christendom during the Dark Ages from Muslim armies and Viking raiders, genocidal persecution of Huguenots, sending the most volunteers in the Crusades, and frequent participation in the European Wars of Religion?
 
Why is this? I mean weren't the French quite fanatical in the medieval ages with their defense of Christendom during the Dark Ages from Muslim armies and Viking raiders, genocidal persecution of Huguenots, sending the most volunteers in the Crusades, and frequent participation in the European Wars of Religion?

Well, between the Crusades and now, there was a little thing called The French Revolution. I'm not sure what impact that might have had on any deep secularization of French society, but it is something that most of the leaders of the Revolution probably wanted, and thus deserves being read into the record here.
 
I'm going to second the French Revolution as one of the main influences here. See below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dechristianization_of_France_during_the_French_Revolution

The close association of the Church in pre-revolutionary France with the Ancien Régime, as well as the fact that the Church was one of the largest landowners in France, meant that they weren't too popular once the Revolution kicked off. There are records of angry mobs killing priests and looting churches too, showing again that the clergy weren't that popular (with the exception of conservative regions like the Vendée). So to answer your question, I'd say that part of the reason that the French are now quite apathetic about people converting away from Catholicism is because most of them don't have that many historic reasons to like Catholic church, which was viewed as an oppressive institution for quite some time.

Then there's also the fact that French nationalism, starting with the introduction of laicité in the French Revolution, sought to define the French nation not as people unified by the Catholic faith but as people unified by the French language, French culture, and valuing liberté, égalité, and fraternité. As nationality became the primary identifier in the Age of Nationalism, religious identities started to be less important, which then leads to a populace that identifies as Catholic but isn't that emotionally invested in said identity. As for the other examples you give, such as Poles and Irish, Catholicism has historically played an important role in both Polish and Irish nationalism IIRC.
 

GarethC

Donor
Polish and Irish national identities and narratives are based on struggles against external powers/cultures - Russia/Germany and England. Framing the national culture in the context of a global religion provides a spiritual counterweight to those temporal oppressors.

French national identity and narrative is based on being the birthplace of reason and the natural sciences, the centre of a global empire, the home of the language of romance and philosophy. If the Renaissance bloomed in Italy, then if flowered in France, and it was in France that the Enlightenment illuminated the spirit of mankind. There's a lot less value in the French national hagiography exalting a foreign church than there is in the Irish or Polish contexts, when the rest of that narrative is about framing La Belle France as a world-leading titan in its own right.
 
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There is also the thing that people rarely convert from Catholicism in France. They just abandon it.

There are also a large number of agnostic catholics, ie cultural catholics, people who identify as catholics culturally but don't really believe in the liturgy. Barely 5% of the french population goes to some sort of service at least once per week. Religion is simply slowly disappearing in France and largely considered a personal affair.

Also you can't really disown people in France.
 

Nebogipfel

Monthly Donor
What exactly happen that made French culture as a whole apathetic to maintaining a family line to keep the Catholic tradition as opposed to Italians, Irish, Poles, Spanish speaking nations, and southern Germans? I mean in the above cultures even merely converting to another sect of Christianity or even a Catholic offshoot that disproves Papal authority such as the Old Catholic can warrant immediately disownment from the family. Even in America among Catholics who can trace their family from the time of the American Revolution, they have a bit of trouble with relatives converting to other Christian faiths.

Do you refer to current day Germany ? If yes, converting or marrying to someone from another branch/denomination stopped being a problem sometimes in the 1960s. Only few would care nowadays, and it would not turn anyone into an outcast.
 
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