how close to a man in the high castle scenario is possible without ASB?

How close can one try to replicate the world in the Main in the High Castle, with Nazis and Japanese winning the war? I was thinking of perhaps a timeline where Alaska is sold to Japan in the late 1800s instead of the US in 1867. Then history proceeds more or less as OTL until a Great Depression causes the 2nd US civil War. In the Timeline The Falcon Cannot Hear, which posits a 2nd ACW in the Depression, Japan was able to occupy portions of the West Coast for a while, so ITTL, an even worse Civil War coupled with a staging base in Alaska gives Japan the opportunity to permanently occupy Hawaii and the Continental US west of the Rockies. East of it, meanwhile, falls under a fascist dictatorship after it beats its opponents in this 2nd ACW. The Nazis, having no navy whatsoever to invade it's enemies, can't create a foothold overseas but rather simply maintains a friendly alliance with the American fascist government, while the American fascist government pretty much adopting all characteristics of Nazism. With Japan still occupying the West Coast, the Amerian fascist government, back by its Nazi allies, and Japan will always have a constant point of contention. Idk what happens to Britain, considering Sealion still seems ASB in this scenario. Nazi Germany itself, stretches from France to the Ural mountains, much like what it was in CalBear's AngloAmerican Nazi War.

Of course, this isn't exactly the situation in the man in the high castle but that is completely 100% ASB, so a few changes had to be made to make it at least slightly more believable.
How plausible of a scenario is this in trying to replicate the Man in the High Castle as much as I can?
 
Last edited:
Well... to the britain thing: If germany has europe at his base with all the manpower and ressources... sealion is more then possible. But if its necessary? Starve the little island out with subs, bomb them and they will surrender. Or let them be where they are and outproduce them and isolate them ;)
 
Probably the best scenario I can think of is something similar to The Falcon Cannot Hear: Giuseppe Zangara assassinates FDR in 1933, his successor is incompetent in his handling of the Great Depression, and the US plunges into a civil war sometime around 1936 or '37. A broad fascist alliance composed of business interests, Dixiecrats, Protestant nativists, and other rightist forces wins the civil war, with the anti-fascists only holding a few states in the North and West with Canadian assistance, and the US becomes a pro-Axis neutral like Spain once World War II breaks out. With American opposition replaced with American neutrality and even quiet support, Germany builds Fortress Europe and neutralizes Britain, while Japan too runs roughshod over the western Pacific. (Perhaps the Philippines, the Marianas, and Hawaii are held by the anti-fascist alliance, and the fascist US quietly endorses a Japanese attack to take out a power base for their enemies.)

1960. The three great powers of the world are Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, and a fascist United States. The fascists control most of the US' pre-civil war territory, but their failure to secure all of it has left them bitter, their propaganda railing against the communists, the Catholics, and Perfidious Albion (particularly Canada) as having divided the nation. As such, they're pulling increasingly close to Germany in the midst of the growing split of the Axis powers, distrusting the Catholic Italians and the swarthy Japanese. Britain was never fully defeated, but it has withdrawn entirely from Europe to focus on shoring up what's left of its empire; Australia and Canada have moved close to the mother country out of fear of Japan and the US respectively, as have the newly independent African states of the former Free France, but South Africa has cut ties to the UK and become officially neutral and unofficially pro-Germany. Canada and its buffer states in the former northern US (the latter a loose equivalent to the Rocky Mountain States), their armies buoyed by propaganda, repeated American aggression, and large numbers of "undesirables" fleeing north, try to lead an "alliance for freedom" in the Western Hemisphere to counter American aggression in Latin America, but with only limited success.
 
I agree with the above posts, without something major happening in the US I don't see how Germany and Japan are going to invade North America. They would need support from large factions in the US inviting them in.

If Germany did manage to defeat the USSR occupying the territory would be a huge drain on resources for many years. Japan would also be tied up in China for many years.

Trying to mange their conquests while also building up fleets and troop levels to invade the US doesn't seem plausible at all.
 
If the United States has really been riven by a civil war that's left a fascist-friendly oligarchy in the east that aligns itself with Germany, I think it's feasible that a Canadian-backed resistance on the West Coast can stop the pro-German faction in the Rocky Mountains, drawing the borderline along narrow mountain passes and rivers difficult to traverse with the kind of military muscle necessary to reunify the country.

The west coast rump state would inherit the decapitated Pacific Fleet, which would give it a certain degree of military projection, but as time goes on and the eastern fascist US rebuilds itself into a military juggernaut set on a path of revanchism and irredentism, a terrified Pacific States would probably need to lean on the tacit (or perhaps even explicit) support of Japan, whose relations with Germany have rapidly cooled to Cold War levels after World War II, and who the Pacific States perceive to be marginally less distasteful to do business with (this world's forces of light, as B_Munro has detailed in his MITHC map, are fairly dim indeed). It wouldn't be in any sense a deep or even particularly amicable relationship, but more one done out of the existential fears over their frighteningly authoritarian eastern neighbour, thus leading to a vaguely Japan-aligned Pacific and a vaguely Germany-aligned Atlantic. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend," and all.

A far cry from full-scale Axis occupation of the entire continent, but fitting more with the OP's image of a world that "cosmetically" resembles the situation of The Man in the High Castle.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
It's not plausible, certainly not in any world that resembles

How close can one try to replicate the world in the Main in the High Castle, with Nazis and Japanese winning the war? I was thinking of perhaps a timeline where Alaska is sold to Japan in the late 1800s instead of the US in 1867. Then history proceeds more or less as OTL until a Great Depression causes the 2nd US civil War. In the Timeline The Falcon Cannot Hear, which posits a 2nd ACW in the Depression, Japan was able to occupy portions of the West Coast for a while, so ITTL, an even worse Civil War coupled with a staging base in Alaska gives Japan the opportunity to permanently occupy Hawaii and the Continental US west of the Rockies. East of it, meanwhile, falls under a fascist dictatorship after it beats its opponents in this 2nd ACW. The Nazis, having no navy whatsoever to invade it's enemies, can't create a foothold overseas but rather simply maintains a friendly alliance with the American fascist government, while the American fascist government pretty much adopting all characteristics of Nazism. With Japan still occupying the West Coast, the Amerian fascist government, back by its Nazi allies, and Japan will always have a constant point of contention. Idk what happens to Britain, considering Sealion still seems ASB in this scenario. Nazi Germany itself, stretches from France to the Ural mountains, much like what it was in CalBear's AngloAmerican Nazi War.

Of course, this isn't exactly the situation in the man in the high castle but that is completely 100% ASB, so a few changes had to be made to make it at least slightly more believable.
How plausible of a scenario is this in trying to replicate the Man in the High Castle as much as I can?

It's not plausible, certainly not in any world that resembles reality enough to have Adolf Hitler come to power in Germany and the militarists take charge in Japan.

Take a look at the economic and demographic comparisons, consider technology and distances, and the realities the Germans face the Soviets, French, and British, while a militaristic Japan exists, essentially, to try and exert control of northeastern Asia (at the expense of the Chinese, the Russians, or both) and it is fantasy.;)

The Atlantic and Pacific are quite formidable obstacles; historically, no European hegemony has managed the Channel successfully in the past millennium, essentially, and Japanese operations east of the Dateline were absolutely unsustainable, historically.

May as well bring in the dragons and elves and giants.;)

Best,
 
Any scenario that starts with a POD in the 1870s and is completely unchanged otherwise until 1933 is ASB. Meanwhile, look an American Civil War in the 1930s might be technically possible, but it's not particularly plausible, and a scenario with Japan landing on California is impossible. They don't have the capacity, and there is no way to GIVE them that capacity, especially not long-term occupation.
 
Top