How chaotic was Nazi organization?

My thoughts exactly :eek:

Given the level of personal and agency rivalry and animosity in the regime it wouldn't surprise me if the post office had launched a pre-emptive nuclear strike on the Sanitation Department...

Now, THERE's and interesting TL. Germany wins the war, and gets the bomb, evetually, somehow, and the first nuclear war is fought as a result of an interdepartmental spat between the Postal Service and the Sanitation Department....

HAHAHAHHA!
 
There's this joke from Nazi Germany:
  1. Who doesn't do accordingly, will be punished accordingly.
  2. What "accordingly" means in which case, is decided by the common will of the German people.
  3. In doubt, the local gauleiter will decide.
 
Himmler was great at creating organisational structures...and then not using them! Not sure if it was Padfield, but there's an excellent quote on how Himmler would subvert and undermine the very structures he put in place.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

sharlin

Banned
The inter-service rivalry was also a huge setback for the Germans, the Nazi's seemed incapable of agreeing on anything. The rivalries between manufacturers led to issues as well. For example the HE-219 Uhu, a superb aircraft in its role and quite the looker too was built in insufficeint numbers partially hindered by the squabbling in the upper echolons of Nazi leadership 'due to political rivalries between Josef Kammhuber, commander of the German night fighter forces, Ernst Heinkel, the manufacturer, and Erhard Milch, responsible for aircraft construction in the Reichsluftfahrtministerium (RLM — the German Aviation Ministry)' According to wikipedia.

Other bits include.

The RLM rejected the design in August 1940 as too complex and risky. Lusser quickly offered four versions of the fighter with various wingspans and engines in order to balance the performance and risk. At the same time, he offered the P.1056 dedicated night fighter with four 20 mm cannons in the wings and fuselage. The RLM rejected all of these on the same grounds in 1941. Heinkel was furious and fired Lusser on the spot.

. Heinkel was sure he had a winner and sent the design off to the RLM in January 1942 while he funded the first prototype himself. Nevertheless, the RLM again rejected the He 219 in favour of new Ju 88- and Me 210-based designs.

When Kammhuber saw the prototype on the 19th, he was so impressed he immediately ordered it into production over Milch's objections. Milch — who had rejected the He 219 in January — was enraged.

Milch repeatedly tried to have the He 219 program killed and in the process, Kammhuber was removed from office. Production ceased for a time but was restarted because the new Junkers Ju 388s were taking too long to get into service.



And thats just the construction of a single aircraft....
 
The inter-service rivalry was also a huge setback for the Germans, the Nazi's seemed incapable of agreeing on anything. The rivalries between manufacturers led to issues as well. For example the HE-219 Uhu, a superb aircraft in its role and quite the looker too was built in insufficeint numbers partially hindered by the squabbling in the upper echolons of Nazi leadership 'due to political rivalries between Josef Kammhuber, commander of the German night fighter forces, Ernst Heinkel, the manufacturer, and Erhard Milch, responsible for aircraft construction in the Reichsluftfahrtministerium (RLM — the German Aviation Ministry)' According to wikipedia.

Other bits include.

The RLM rejected the design in August 1940 as too complex and risky. Lusser quickly offered four versions of the fighter with various wingspans and engines in order to balance the performance and risk. At the same time, he offered the P.1056 dedicated night fighter with four 20 mm cannons in the wings and fuselage. The RLM rejected all of these on the same grounds in 1941. Heinkel was furious and fired Lusser on the spot.

. Heinkel was sure he had a winner and sent the design off to the RLM in January 1942 while he funded the first prototype himself. Nevertheless, the RLM again rejected the He 219 in favour of new Ju 88- and Me 210-based designs.

When Kammhuber saw the prototype on the 19th, he was so impressed he immediately ordered it into production over Milch's objections. Milch — who had rejected the He 219 in January — was enraged.

Milch repeatedly tried to have the He 219 program killed and in the process, Kammhuber was removed from office. Production ceased for a time but was restarted because the new Junkers Ju 388s were taking too long to get into service.



And thats just the construction of a single aircraft....


Milch was right to reject the 219... it's wingloading was very high for the period; especially at altitude; it's performance like every other heinkel design never matched the production brochures either... more to the point the ME-110 was effective enough as a night fighter where a purpose built design wasn't required anyway

the problem was hitler allowing his buddy ernst heinkel to continue low priority development after Milch repeatedly say it wasn't going to happen
 

Deleted member 1487

Milch was right to reject the 219... it's wingloading was very high for the period; especially at altitude; it's performance like every other heinkel design never matched the production brochures either... more to the point the ME-110 was effective enough as a night fighter where a purpose built design wasn't required anyway

the problem was hitler allowing his buddy ernst heinkel to continue low priority development after Milch repeatedly say it wasn't going to happen

Agreed; it was badly underpowered, which made it useless for its intended role.
The Ju 88 G would ultimately prove to be Germany's best night fighter anyway.
 
Agreed; it was badly underpowered, which made it useless for its intended role.
The Ju 88 G would ultimately prove to be Germany's best night fighter anyway.

the same cancelling but not cancelling projects thing happened with the me-264 and a bunch of other stupid and wasteful designs that sucked up resources from projects the LW actually wanted
 
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