How can prostitution remain legal in the US?
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Wait a minute: I thought a handful of counties in NV were the only locations in the US where it's legal. I thought the brothels of Storyville in New Orleans were shut down once and for all (
) at the beginning of World War I, pretty much spelling an end to above-board prostitution in that city (I'm quite sure it exists just under the surface). Where in LA does it still exist legally? Also, I've heard that until relatively recently (and it may still be true) that there were a few locations in AZ where it hadn't been outlawed (not Phoenix or Tucson).
) at the beginning of World War I, pretty much spelling an end to above-board prostitution in that city (I'm quite sure it exists just under the surface). Where in LA does it still exist legally? Also, I've heard that until relatively recently (and it may still be true) that there were a few locations in AZ where it hadn't been outlawed (not Phoenix or Tucson).the obvious answers as the situation that applies elsewhere in the world
prohibit street soliciting ...
heavily restrict the size and scope of 'visiting rooms' ( limiting them to a single prostitute or 2 or 3 .... ) making a commercial brothel illegal ...
very much 'out of sight , out of mind' scenario ...
prohibit street soliciting ...
heavily restrict the size and scope of 'visiting rooms' ( limiting them to a single prostitute or 2 or 3 .... ) making a commercial brothel illegal ...
very much 'out of sight , out of mind' scenario ...
vl100butch
Donor
Have a different Secretary of the Navy and Secretary of War in 1917, who will allow Storyville to remain open....
Yes there is still prostitution in New Orleans.....
Yes there is still prostitution in New Orleans.....
That's easy, the puritans never settle in the Americas, leading to a more 'liberal' and likely unrecognizable USA.
No, only in some counties in Nevada. Prostitution is illegal throughout Louisiana. http://prostitution.procon.org/view.background-resource.php?resourceID=739
From 1980 to 2009, prostitution was technically legal in Rhode Island (though associated activities like street solicitation, running a brothel, and pimping were illegal). In 2009, however, prostitution was again officially outlawed in the state. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Rhode_Island
Some harm reduction approach,
So, even a hundred and fifty years ago, it's more the norm for a sheriff to view it as: It's okay if it's a free choice on the part of the woman, it's not okay if she's tricked into it.
So, when the Sheriff inspects brothels, he often brings along several ladies from the Woman's Christian Tabernacle Union, and he sees that they have the space to talk with each of the ladies who are there privately. And they don't necessarily have a monopoly. He's happy to bring through other societal do-gooders.
And he even sometimes jokes with the do-gooders, you really need to offer these ladies jobs. Well, maybe not quite as much money, but pretty close.
So, even a hundred and fifty years ago, it's more the norm for a sheriff to view it as: It's okay if it's a free choice on the part of the woman, it's not okay if she's tricked into it.
So, when the Sheriff inspects brothels, he often brings along several ladies from the Woman's Christian Tabernacle Union, and he sees that they have the space to talk with each of the ladies who are there privately. And they don't necessarily have a monopoly. He's happy to bring through other societal do-gooders.
And he even sometimes jokes with the do-gooders, you really need to offer these ladies jobs. Well, maybe not quite as much money, but pretty close.
But good luck with this.
In his book Go East, Young Man: The Early Years, Justice William O. Douglas said he knew of at least several cases where reformers tried to end prostitution in a city only to run into big time opposition from elected municipal officials and maybe the police departments as well. As if they were receiving substantial money.
And I'll add, as if the brothel operators had blackmail information on some of them.
I will try to find this passage in his book (unfortunately, no preview on google books)
In his book Go East, Young Man: The Early Years, Justice William O. Douglas said he knew of at least several cases where reformers tried to end prostitution in a city only to run into big time opposition from elected municipal officials and maybe the police departments as well. As if they were receiving substantial money.
And I'll add, as if the brothel operators had blackmail information on some of them.
I will try to find this passage in his book (unfortunately, no preview on google books)
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Make the French model (brothels and registries of prostitutes) more widespread in the US - for this, maybe a weaker progressive movement would do the trick.
Maybe nothing. There still is illegal prostitution. And maybe officials and police still receive payoffs.
And human trafficking has probably been a problem for some time. They has been recent recognition of just how big a problem. (although like anything, if the reformers overstate the case by 1/2 of 1% they risk alienating people who feel they've been worked and played and that it's all hype. This is almost a cognitive processing fault on the part of human beings. And the lesson for reformers is clear: Slightly understate your case.)
And human trafficking has probably been a problem for some time. They has been recent recognition of just how big a problem. (although like anything, if the reformers overstate the case by 1/2 of 1% they risk alienating people who feel they've been worked and played and that it's all hype. This is almost a cognitive processing fault on the part of human beings. And the lesson for reformers is clear: Slightly understate your case.)
nooblet
Banned
Basically alter the long history of humankind, or at least the parts where Christianity (among other religions) condemned prostitution. Prostitution was condemned and then criminalized for reasons which should be apparent to anyone who has paid attention for the past hundreds of years.
The quasi-legal status of prostitution suits most people, except for the few johns and prostitutes that are caught in enforcement nets (usually through deliberate entrapment in the former case, and the latter is almost never acted upon without some other reason to target the woman). It is also highly unlikely to find any society which would actually enforce its anti-prostitution laws in a consistent and universal manner, so punishments are usually doled out to those without the connections to operate outside the law.
The likely trend in the future will be the quasi-legal status where prostitutes are unpunished, but their clients are punished and scorned. It really comes down to the moral values of a society, and as much as the current regime likes to pretend it is liberal and free, it is actually strict in its own ways about who can do what and who is allowed to feel what way.
The best case scenario is that all men collectively agree to never pay for sex, and the sordid trade withers away... but that didn't work for slavery (isn't working for slavery, really), and the trajectory of this society is entirely opposite of what should happen.
The quasi-legal status of prostitution suits most people, except for the few johns and prostitutes that are caught in enforcement nets (usually through deliberate entrapment in the former case, and the latter is almost never acted upon without some other reason to target the woman). It is also highly unlikely to find any society which would actually enforce its anti-prostitution laws in a consistent and universal manner, so punishments are usually doled out to those without the connections to operate outside the law.
The likely trend in the future will be the quasi-legal status where prostitutes are unpunished, but their clients are punished and scorned. It really comes down to the moral values of a society, and as much as the current regime likes to pretend it is liberal and free, it is actually strict in its own ways about who can do what and who is allowed to feel what way.
The best case scenario is that all men collectively agree to never pay for sex, and the sordid trade withers away... but that didn't work for slavery (isn't working for slavery, really), and the trajectory of this society is entirely opposite of what should happen.
BlondieBC
Banned
Temperance movement and Women's movement. They wanted a "better" society, and this include more than things like no pubs. Quality political activism at work.
Son of Leman Russ
Banned
Indeed Prostitution is better controlled and registered, as long as the girls are free to go and come, they can provide benefits to everyone...
There's nothing wrong with prostitution if it's between consenting adults. Contrary to popular belief, women can and do choose this line of work out of their own free will. There's nothing sordid about it if there's no force and no drugs involved. So far, the American model of criminalizing prostitutes as well as johns has proven ineffective and there have been indications that the Swedish model, which criminalizes clients only, doesn't work either:
Source. Here's another interesting article.
But not to derail this thread and make it all political, I shall return to the topic at hand. For one, you have to somehow undermine the argument that illegalization is the best way to combat sex trafficking. You'd also have to keep the Woman's Christian Temperance Union from getting political influence somehow. Getting conservatives to turn a blind eye instead of going all brimstone and whatnot would help, so the ultra-religious nuts needs to be kept out of politics. In short, the US needs to become way more secular.
Also, two key federal policies hastened the end of red-light districts: the passage of the Mann Act, or “white slave traffic act,” created the first federal law around prostitution in 1910; and at the start of the first world war, a Navy decree demanded the closure of all sex-related businesses in close range of military bases, under the premise of “protecting” enlisted men from sexually transmitted infections. Based on fear and opportunity, Storyville was closed.
The first would have to be altered toward combating the causes of prostitution and at combating trafficking and slavery rather than the prostitutes and their clients. As for the second, you'd need to change the navy's mindset into thinking that navy crews need to vent their sexual frustration, and that the navy or an affiliated third party should make condoms available somehow.
You basically have to find some way to eviscerate the Progressive movement in the United States. You have to remember at the time that moral hygiene legislation like this was considered a progressive position, meant in this particular case to help fallen women get out of poverty and seek decent work. Remember that a lot of these people were looking for some do-gooder cause after they felt the slavery issue had well and truly spent itself.
Basically those middle class Protestant progressive types made gains in municipal and state administration.
Have someone other than Bryan lead the Populist movement, namely someone who doesn't consider organised labour unimportant. I believe he spoke in Chicago in 1896 to sympathetic trade unionists and instead of declaring them crucial or even useful to reform called them a nonentity who needed to back the farming interest for their own good. Oddly enough this didn't go down well and he repeated the mistake on numerous occasions. It was an excellent way to make his election almost mathematically impossible.
Get said Populist-Democrat into the White House so the early 20th century reform movement is less... well WASP-y for lack of a better term and Progressives remain a minority in the Republican Party.
Its hardly a direct POD for the OP but denying the WASPs leadership of reform which often had an anti-immigrant bent could help.
Get said Populist-Democrat into the White House so the early 20th century reform movement is less... well WASP-y for lack of a better term and Progressives remain a minority in the Republican Party.
Its hardly a direct POD for the OP but denying the WASPs leadership of reform which often had an anti-immigrant bent could help.
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