How can Madrid become the largest city in Europe during the 17th and 18th Century?

How can Madrid become the largest city in Europe during the 16th and 17th Century? Could the expansion of the Empire cause a population boom in Spain? Could the Spanish government minimize the spending for urban projects and not make large churches? Could investment be repatriated back to Spain? I'm talking about a city of 200,000 people and would be as bustling as Florence or Constantinople and would rival that of Rome.
 
IMO, it's impossible unless all the other big cities get nearly destroyed somehow. Paris had more than 200,000 by 1500, Venice 160,000, and Madrid had 30,000 by the end of the century.

It simply isn't in a place where vast amounts of people will gather automatically, and early modern states didn't have the financial capacity to compensate the lack of natural growth with government-supplied jobs.
 
IMO, it's impossible unless all the other big cities get nearly destroyed somehow. Paris had more than 200,000 by 1500, Venice 160,000, and Madrid had 30,000 by the end of the century.

It simply isn't in a place where vast amounts of people will gather automatically, and early modern states didn't have the financial capacity to compensate the lack of natural growth with government-supplied jobs.
Madrid is in the middle of the country and it is the capital when it was moved from Toledo. Philip II had moved the capital to Madrid in 1561. Madrid has the open space to develop.
 
If Madrid was developing a good financial system and its gold didn't simply wash over it like dry soil, it could develop more

Madrid as the emporium is possible, especially with a full integration of the Portuguese empire/trade networks
 
Madrid is in the middle of the country and it is the capital when it was moved from Toledo. Philip II had moved the capital to Madrid in 1561. Madrid has the open space to develop.

Not really: the Manzanares acted as much as a barrier to extension as a lifeline and it took Carlos III's effort to really bring Madrid into it own, by improving public health, opening large streets and squares, etc.
 
If Madrid was developing a good financial system and its gold didn't simply wash over it like dry soil, it could develop more

I always wondered what might have happened if Spain had embraced capitalism and abandoned that dinosaur of mercantilism early. Madrid being a major European urban power might be a side-effect of that.
 
I always wondered what might have happened if Spain had embraced capitalism and abandoned that dinosaur of mercantilism early. Madrid being a major European urban power might be a side-effect of that.
It's not just mercantilism, Spain just wasn't in control of much economically and ruined the Portuguese empire as well through terrible policy (no trade union for starter...)
 
I always wondered what might have happened if Spain had embraced capitalism and abandoned that dinosaur of mercantilism early. Madrid being a major European urban power might be a side-effect of that.
Wasn't Italy also a mercantile place with a strong middle class in the 1500's? I wonder what the system was like in Italy for the 1500's.
 
It's not just mercantilism, Spain just wasn't in c

ontrol of much economically and ruined the Portuguese empire as well through terrible policy (no trade union for starter...)

It had a lot of problems. I think sitting on their pile of gold n silver instead of letting it flow is definitely counter productive to her capital balooning to a million citizens.

Wasn't Italy also a mercantile place with a strong middle class in the 1500's? I wonder what the system was like in Italy for the 1500's.

Not wrong (though I can't claim to know very much about the Renaissance Italian economy) though I think comparin one of the world's largest empires with warring city states is a bit of an apples/oranges situation.
 
Well, it definitely needs to become the capital sooner and Spain needs to become a unified state sooner. If it's been the capital of a united Spain for 300 years by the 1500s, it will likely be larger. But there is still the problem of geography: it's centrally located for Spain, but on the periphery of Europe, so it's not likely to become a European trading center. Also, Spain's population isn't very large, less than half that of France at this time, spread in a very low density.
 
Last edited:
I pretty much see Madrid as a 16th century version of Brazilia, when you place a capital in the middle of nowhere, it takes centuries for it to develop the necessary infrastructure to really grow.
 
I pretty much see Madrid as a 16th century version of Brazilia, when you place a capital in the middle of nowhere, it takes centuries for it to develop the necessary infrastructure to really grow.
Not really, the middle of Spain wasn't as remote back in the 1500's. The city of Toledo existed in the Middle of the country and nearby towns include Guadalajara and Segovia when you cross the mountains. Brazilia developed quickly after the capital was put there.
 
Top