How can Catalonia remain indipendent?

Given the recent news about a possible indipendence referendum in Catalonia, how could we avoid the issue in AH e keep Aragon indipendent from Castille like Portugal did?
 
Aragon and Spain united via personal union OTL if I'm not mistaken, so if that personal union never goes through . . .
 

Tamandaré

Banned
No marriage between the Catholic Kings, or one of them dies before the union can happen.

Alternatively, have Portugal win the Castillean Sucession War. You get Portugal-Castille and a independent Aragon instead. Wish we had any TLs following that premise. Wonder if Portugal-Castille would't be a expansion monster with all these Castillean and Portuguese explorers and money sending people to the Americas.
 
The war of Spanish succession falling into stalemate and ending up with Spain split between Bourbon Aragon and Hapsburg Castille-Leon would be an interesting way to do it.
 

katchen

Banned
Ferdinand and Isabella don't marry each other.
Hard to butterfly away since they honestly loved each other. If Princess Isabella was initially married off to Juan of Portugal and he died, who would rule Castille and would Isabella as widow be able to marry Ferdinand and just be Queen of Aragon? Or Queen of Aragon and Portugal, two countries that could not be physically joined.
Remember. Ferdinand was not only King of Aragon and Catalonia, but of the Two Sicilies as well.
There might still be a problem keeping Catalonia out of France's clutches, too.
 

katchen

Banned
The war of Spanish succession falling into stalemate and ending up with Spain split between Bourbon Aragon and Hapsburg Castille-Leon would be an interesting way to do it.
Yes, that might work. If it didn't end up with Aragon annexed to France as a consolation prize for Louis XIV.
 
Panderson,
Catalonia as such has never been independent. There were some small more or less independent counties. The most important one was the county of Barcelona that joined the kingdom of Aragon.

funnyhat,
No they did not try. They were defending the rights of the Habsburg claimant to the throne. They tried something in 1640, but it was more an attempt to avoid taxes than anything nationalistic.

* * * *

An stalemate in the Spanish war of Sucesion could have different divisions according what was occupied by each side. In any case you would have a Habsburg Aragon surrounded by Bourbon France and Castille and eventually re-absorbed-
 
Catalonia tried to secede during the War of the Spanish Succession but was defeated.

Catalonia didn't try to secede during the War of the Spanish Succession. They did try to secede, and did so for a few years, in 1640 when they revolted during the thirty years war. During the War of the Spanish Succession, Catalonia (actually the whole Aragon) supported the Hapsburg candidate against the Bourbon candidate favored by Castile. Barcelona was the one of last city to fall (Palma fell later still), and that's why the Catalonian nationalist movement make that a symbol of the struggle for independence. The truth, however, is that the town of Barcelona called ALL SPANIARDS to fight agains the Bourbons, never claiming for independence.

The war of Spanish succession falling into stalemate and ending up with Spain split between Bourbon Aragon and Hapsburg Castille-Leon would be an interesting way to do it.

If the war of the succession had fallen into stalemate it would have ended up with a Bourbon Castile (centralized) and a Hapsburg Aragon. However I don't think either of the two candidates had agreed to that.

During the middle ages, all the different kingdoms in Iberia had the idea of getting united. After all, they all claimed to be spaniards and called themselves spaniards, descendants from the visigothic kingdom. Even Ferdinand and Isabella had that idea after their marriage, and eventually it became a reality in 1580 when Philip II inherited the crown of Portugal.

However, a union between Castile and Portugal would have made much more sense. If Henry IV, Isabella's brother, had had more power over her he could have made her marry Juan of Portugal and eventually Castile and Portugal would have united. Aragon, back then, was suffering a severe decline, and without Castile's help all their possesions in Italy would have been lost. I have the feeling that the next step for France would have been invading Aragon through Catalonia, and even though Castile and France had been traditionally allies until then, probably Castile would have reacted entering the war on the side of Aragon.

Then again, what Gonzaga says is true: if only Ferdinand had had a heir from his second marriage the personal union would have been broken and Aragon would have remained independent. The question is, for how long?
 
In the 1640's, during the Franco-Spanish War, France created the so-called 'Duchy of Catalonia'. Though this failed IOTL, simply have it succeed. Or have the idea revitalised when England enters the war.

Whether the Duchy could survive against either France or Spain I don't know though.
 
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