How can Apartheid SA survive to present day?

Probably with difficulty but the most likely POD would be the continuation of the Cold War so that the United States continues to prop up apartheid. Also no sporting boycotts especially Rugby.Resettlement was in some ways a non started as the economy relied on African Labour so there would always be black people in townships. Effectively apartheid was impracticable for ecomomic reasons and the amount if interbreeding which had resulted in a substantially higher mixed race population than the statistics showed. Apart from all that the trade unions had the power to render the country ungovernable.

However do we want it to survive? Are things all that bad, a recent visit to South Africa mainly on a game reserve in Limpopo suggests the Afrikaaners are not that badly off there is still a considerable economic divide in rural areas i.e country lodges with all white clientelle as car ownership is largely white. I was able to walk around the subburbs of Pretoria quite safely in daylight, never tried it after dark. I dropped my wallet at a service station and a black man pointed it out. The alternative to the settlelent reached would have been ultimately bloodshed even if the regime had stayed in power longer. At least there was a relatively peaceful settlement with the whites retaining a considerable amount of economic power, protected jobs and pensions etc whilst loosing political power.

The main issue at the time was a wave of strikes which had a positive side in that trade unions are a better way of improving living standards than confiscatory Mugabe like measures and a more effective opposition than the opposition parties. There is hope, Mbeki going has helped, Jacob Zuma whatever his shortcomings is more consensual.
 
I'm not sure that anyone, bar one of the earliest posters to this thread wants a long term viable Apartheid state!


Personally I've always preferred to focus on a POD pre Second Boer War, or between the war and the Union, or around WW2. But I've never been motivated enough to write one
 

Ian the Admin

Administrator
Donor
Anyway I don't see the positive of abolishing of the Apartheid - yes they have freedom - this is the only positive, but also have high HIV positive population, many white people are afraided for there live and go back to Europa (most of them are high educated people), The country is highly unstable - you can be robbed at the street and if you are alive after robbery you are lucky man. Black hit White, perhaps White hit Black when they can - many hatred between the population ect.

I don't know what they call it in Bulgaria, but here we ban racists.
 
It's Richards Bay dude.

PW Botha actually had a plan to create a "Constellation of South African states", and there were a number of serious proposals in the late 1980s and early 1990s to divide SA into "cantons".

Damn my memory sucks some times. Thanks Marius. :)
 

Valdemar II

Banned
No dude, just the way he wrote made me think that for some reason.

Definitely don't think that you guys are apartheid apologists. Of all the European nations, it was the Scandinavians who supported the anti-apartheid movement the most.

Fair enough.
 

Susano

Banned
How can Apartheid SA survive to present day?
I'm turning North Korean
I think I'm turning North Korean
I really think so

No freedom, no TV, no prosperity, no reform
No fun, no sin, no electricity, no wonder it's dark

I'm turning North Korean
I think I'm turning North Korean
I really think so

:p

(Thats the only way I see the regime surviving, that is...)
 
apartheid-era South Africa was a brutal corrupt police state that kept 90% of its population subjugated and repressed... after all that, "FUCK, you are stupid" was all I was left with

While this is true, there are many many states in the world where 100% of the population is far more brutally oppressed and no one gives a crap. The anti-apartheid movement was based on racism, not human rights. As an advocate for human rights, I find that hypocritical, though I can't argue that the outcome was good - I just wish people would apply the same standards to every oppressive state.

So, to the OP - by giving up all pretenses of democracy. An all-white military junta that uses the same oppressive crap to survive economic isolation as every other totalitarian government on the planet. Hell, they have the natural resources - someone will buy them. Where else are you going to get platinum in quantity? Industry doesn't function without platinum.
 
I guess you could have the US annex Cuba in after the Spanish-American War that means no Cuban support in Angola.
 

Lusitania

Donor
I guess you could have the US annex Cuba in after the Spanish-American War that means no Cuban support in Angola.

Actually till 1975 "apartheid" was supported by the three pillars of white rule: Portugal, Rhodesia and South Africa.

The Portuguese abandonment of Africa in 1975 was the dead bell of "white rule" in Africa. For Apartheid to last till today you would need all three to still exist.

The establishment of Maxist black government in Mocambique provided the means for Mugabe to overthow the whites in Rhodesia in the 1980s. It was just a matter of time for SA to follow.
 
Actually till 1975 "apartheid" was supported by the three pillars of white rule: Portugal, Rhodesia and South Africa.

The Portuguese abandonment of Africa in 1975 was the dead bell of "white rule" in Africa. For Apartheid to last till today you would need all three to still exist.

The establishment of Maxist black government in Mocambique provided the means for Mugabe to overthow the whites in Rhodesia in the 1980s. It was just a matter of time for SA to follow.

I wouldn't be too quick to say that. Mugabe never succeeded at "overthrowing" Smith and his cronies. The Rhodesian Army couldn't hope to stop the Bush War at their borders, but by the end of the conflict the Rhodesians had realized that and instead just did their best to make life miserable for ZANU and ZAPU. The Rhodesians owned the air from start to finish - they had little trouble owning the air over Botswana, Zambia and Mozambique, too - and the Rhodesian SAS, Light Infantry and the Selous Scouts were BIG trouble for the black guerilla armies. Vorster sold out the Rhodesians to try and get the other black African states off his back, and Smith failed to convince either the UK or US that his fight was against communism despite his best attempts.

Change any of the foreign policy factors, and the Rhodesians would have had a much easier time.

And remember that in Rhodesia there was at most 275,000 whites against 5 million+ black Africans. 20-1 odds don't work so well, do they? In South Africa, the worst odds were about 6-1. Rhodesia's fall didn't mean much to SA, because Mugabe was too scared of Pretoria (and the Afrikaners made plenty of attempts to mess up Zimbabwe, and had more than a little success at it) to allow the ANC to base there.
 
And remember that in Rhodesia there was at most 275,000 whites against 5 million+ black Africans. 20-1 odds don't work so well, do they? In South Africa, the worst odds were about 6-1. Rhodesia's fall didn't mean much to SA, because Mugabe was too scared of Pretoria (and the Afrikaners made plenty of attempts to mess up Zimbabwe, and had more than a little success at it) to allow the ANC to base there.

Despite that, the regime lasted along time. Also, like not all whites supported the regime, not all blacks where against it.

so white Saffas need to stop moaning and get on with the business of making the country work.

Perhapse they should be allowed to, then. At least they don´t complain about zimbabwean illegal immigrants.
 
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