How can a superpower emerge from South America?

Like using any POD, even different colonizers, could a superpower emerge from South America, if not why? Could it be that the geography just doesn't support a superpower at all, or are the resources just not plentiful enough for a superpower to build off of?
 
Yes. If someone could get the Argentinean breakbasket and Brazilian heartland in one nation you'd have a very good shot at it.
 
Yes. If someone could get the Argentinean breakbasket and Brazilian heartland in one nation you'd have a very good shot at it.
Where's the Brazilian heartland? Also why is it important for a South American superpower? What does it have in there resource wise?
 
Okay, just to be snarky, I really wanted to post "Well, have a mild mannered Brazilian scientist develop the Super Soldier serum in the 1940s, and you have a good shot!" I'm done now :)
 
Where's the Brazilian heartland? Also why is it important for a South American superpower? What does it have in there resource wise?
The southern and eastern parts where the bulk of the populace lives.

It adds significant Iron, Coal, agricultural ability, and today significant oil. Plenty of other resources too. Brazil is rich in resources.
 
The southern and eastern parts where the bulk of the populace lives.

It adds significant Iron, Coal, agricultural ability, and today significant oil. Plenty of other resources too. Brazil is rich in resources.
So, how could a country end up being composed of the areas you mentioned above, without breaking apart?
 
So, how could a country end up being composed of the areas you mentioned above, without breaking apart?
Different agreements between Portugal and Spain about the colonial borders. If the rest of the continent is Hispanophone then the Lusophone block has good odds of staying united. A bit of politicking would be needed though, but that's true of anything.
 
Different agreements between Portugal and Spain about the colonial borders. If the rest of the continent is Hispanophone then the Lusophone block has good odds of staying united. A bit of politicking would be needed though, but that's true of anything.
So, a South American superpower is likely to be Portuguese speaking rather than Spanish. Makes sense , since I think an all around Spanish South America is likely to balkanize, or at least I think it would.
 
So, a South American superpower is likely to be Portuguese speaking rather than Spanish. Makes sense , since I think an all around Spanish South America is likely to balkanize, or at least I think it would.
Well it's more just that Portugal already had most of the good part for super power building.

I suppose a unified Spanish South American could become a super power too if they could hold together (which is tricky, but not impossible).
 
Quoting myself:

Mendo de la Cueva y Benavídez was the governor of Buenos Aires until 1640, he was the cousin of Salvador Correia de Sá e Benevides, governor of Rio de Janeiro. After the Iberian Union was ended Salvador sent a letter to his cousins in Buenos Aires asking them to swear fealty to John IV of Portugal, not only because of their personal relations but because Buenos Aires had a good commercial relationship whith Rio de Janeiro. What if Mendo stay in power a little more and succesfully makes Buenos Aires slip away from Spain in 1640?
 

Oceano

Banned
It already has, it is called Brazil. This is not even our final form!
ALL WILL KNEEL, ONE DAY THIS WORLD WILL BELONG TO US!


Quoting myself:

YES!! SWEAR FEALTY TO THE RIGHTEROUS KING! TOGETHER WE WILL TAKE EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!

Alternatively:
The Bragança-Orleans dinasty had plans to conquer the River Plate. I think they got sank by the Liberal Courts. Stop the Porto Revolution or otherwise delay the departing of the portuguese royal family, and they might just pull it off. Give Napoleon a win to make sure, then it might just have british backing. The luso-brazilians already have the Oriental Band. Go down, take it and THE BRAZILIAN WANK EMPIRE reaches ITS FINAL FORM!

Bonus Brazil-wank: That part of Bolivia that wanted to join Brazil does so, and Brazil keeps French Guyana.
Bonus Brazil-wank2: Did I mention that this Brazil also possesses Portugal's colonial empire? Because it does. Who needs Portugal when you have everything else?
 
Last edited:
It already has, it is called Brazil. This is not even our final form!
ALL WILL KNEEL, ONE DAY THIS WORLD WILL BELONG TO US!




YES!! SWEAR FEALTY TO THE RIGHTEROUS KING! TOGETHER WE WILL TAKE EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!

Alternatively:
The Bragança-Orleans dinasty had plans to conquer the River Plate. I think they got sank by the Liberal Courts. Stop the Porto Revolution or otherwise delay the departing of the portuguese royal family, and they might just pull it off. Give Napoleon a win to make sure, then it might just have british backing. The luso-brazilians already have the Oriental Band. Go down, take it and THE BRAZILIAN WANK EMPIRE reaches ITS FINAL FORM!

Bonus Brazil-wank: That part of Bolivia that wanted to join Brazil does so, and Brazil keeps French Guyana.
Bonus Brazil-wank2: Did I mention that this Brazil also possesses Portugal's colonial empire? Because it does. Who needs Portugal when you have everything else?
Usually, a lot of people say that the Brazilian Empire become a superpower or even a great power is near ASB, for some reason, so I question if that could actually work. Could it?
 
Stop the republican coup in Brazil
?????
Profit

Now, a serious commentary

The best way to do that is by either butterflying the republican coup in Brazil or making it fail, without it, Marshall Floriano wouldn't give our gold reserves for the USA and we neither would have our imperial navy destroyed in the two revolts of the armata, neither have much of the infraestruture destroyed in the republican terror during the years of the sword (1889-1894). After Floriano left, the president Prudente the Moraes had to rebuilt Brazil from zero
 
Usually, a lot of people say that the Brazilian Empire become a superpower or even a great power is near ASB, for some reason, so I question if that could actually work. Could it?

Just avoiding the civil wars, rebellions, the first republic and the three dictatorships will improve a lot the brazilian situation, but if Brazil is stable and can make some reforms it can go even higher...
 
Just avoiding the civil wars, rebellions, the first republic and the three dictatorships will improve a lot the brazilian situation, but if Brazil is stable and can make some reforms it can go even higher...
So, far this thread is more optimistic than others I have made or encountered when it comes to South America. Hooray for optimism!!!( For now....)
 
Argentina might be the best option. It could be the United States of the south. You just need to tie together the mountainous regions of Argentina which have the resources with the great ports and farmlands in the east. And that requires defeating the natives--sadly, they will have to suffer immensely for this to work. It shouldn't really be surprising how Spain conquered all that land--they changed out the native leaders for the Catholic Church hierarchy and above all, the King of Spain. When they met societies that didn't function that way, the results ended in repeated disasters and costly wars at best. This is the case in the North of Mexico, but also in most all of Argentina (plus Southern Chile and interior Paraguay/Bolivia). This is part of the reason why that Buenos Aires (along with much of Eastern Argentina) was so underdeveloped for so long despite the advantageous location. Look at the glacial pace the Argentine frontier pressed south compared to the American frontier. I suspect a lot of this is because of similar weakness of Spanish settlers in New Mexico, but both that and Argentina's case can be alleviated. With stronger bands of settlers pushing on the frontier north and south, and most importantly, far more settlement in Argentina (Spain's immigration policies were too restrictive), you could build a resilient society that can emerge as an independent nation and be a competitor. I think because of the reality of colonisation it'll always be second-tier in the New World to the US, but it can claim a place as a great power as long as you consider a nation like Italy one.

The biggest thing is getting the Chileans onboard with this. Uruguay and Paraguay are both doable as well (they were originally provinces of Argentina anyway), but with Chile, Argentina can gain access to Chile's mineral wealth, which vitally for an industrialising nation, includes some of the few sources of coal on the continent outside of Colombia/Venezuela. The biggest issue happens to be the highest mountain range in the Western Hemisphere lying immediately in the way, which helps to foster an independently-minded state which wouldn't care to listen to what the people on the other side of it want. Clearly Spain thought this way as well, since Chile and Argentina were separate for centuries. If you think of it, its perfectly logical, since aside from going over the Andes, the only other way is to sail around Cape Horn in some of the stormiest seas on the planet. I don't know how to avoid this issue. Perhaps an early Buenos Aires, much more Indian Wars in Argentina, and Spanish settlement at key points in Tierra del Fuego might help. Tying together the Cuyo region at the foot of the Andes and the Buenos Aires area is essential for this to work. Tierra del Fuego could be settled as early as the 17th century--with an early gold rush there, Spain will take note and make it a decent enough place.

The other territorial expansion is in the south of Brazil, and at least Rio Grande do Sul can be claimed for Spain assuming the conflicts with Portuguese settlers and Portugal as a whole go well for them. Since the goal is a strong South American country, I think that's not too hard to do, and would naturally flow from a stronger colonial policy for Spain.

Since we're talking about Argentina, let's hope this changed colonial era butterflies shit like the Argentine Civil Wars. It probably will.

The end result is a powerhouse in the Southern Cone that has some key weaknesses, but is still the second most powerful nation in the Americas and can easily compete with its neighbours like Peru or Brazil.
 
Just avoiding the civil wars, rebellions, the first republic and the three dictatorships will improve a lot the brazilian situation, but if Brazil is stable and can make some reforms it can go even higher...

And no racist oligarchs forcing Brazil to stay as a coffe farm
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
The southern and eastern parts where the bulk of the populace lives.

It adds significant Iron, Coal, agricultural ability, and today significant oil. Plenty of other resources too. Brazil is rich in resources.

That won't matter the POD somehow gives Brazil a different system of land tenure and sound financial institutions.
 
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