How badly would Britain and China be hit in an 1980s nuclear exchange?

Why would China get hit at all in a 1980's Soviet-NATO nuclear war?

China might escape getting hit by the US, but there is no way the USSR would not nuke China. China is a hostile nuclear power, with which the USSR almost fought a war in the sixties. China recently invaded Soviet Ally Vietnam, and supports the mujahedeen in Afghanistan.

Britain is a NATO member with a large conventional military and hundreds of nuclear bombs. Britain would be absolutely devastated.
 
The rationale for the devastation of Britain seems on a more solid ground than China; it's not clear to me why the USSR would attack a neutral power for clearly genocidal purposes.
 

Philip

Donor
it's not clear to me why the USSR would attack a neutral power for clearly genocidal purposes.

The Soviet rationale would likely have followed something along these lines: We are in a fight for survival. Our country is about to be devastated. We will not be able to defend ourselves against China should they decide to attack. We better hit them first while we can.
 
The rationale for the devastation of Britain seems on a more solid ground than China; it's not clear to me why the USSR would attack a neutral power for clearly genocidal purposes.


In this situation,they aren't a neutral power any more than say the US in early 1941 was towards japan and germany. which means technicaly yes,but not in the way that matters.
 
The USSR would mainly hit the ports and airfields of the UK, to deny US reinforcements and supplies from reaching mainland Europe. Which in that small space means lots of collateral damage all over the UK. Plus it would mean taking out US strategic assets already in place in the UK. As in tactical nukes.

Against China, the USSR would do that mainly out of paranoia, thinking that if they were going to lose in Europe, China would take over the mineral rich eastern provinces. Doubling the size of China. It's the Eastern Barbarian Invader Paranoia Complex.........similar to the Teutonic Western Barbarian Invader Complex.........

:cool:
 
China would get hit even if they were nominally neutral solely to prevent them from rising to superpower status after NATO and the Warsaw Pact go down. Might even get hit by both sides.
 
In an 1980s nuclear war how badly do Britain and China get nuked and what would remain of their societies?
I'd expect the UK to be hit hard. They are a geographically small nuclear armed state so I would expect them to suffer a significant degree of damage.

I'm not sure about China. Even if they were a target I'm not sure how many warheads would be allocated to systematically destroying China.
 
The USA will hit Chinese nuclear facilities and locations of any missiles or nuclear capable aircraft they have. Maybe a hit on known command and control bunkers. In this scenario anybody left over with nuclear toys and delivery systems, and intact central control of civil and military capabilities is the big dog. If the only effects on China of this are some fallout and perhaps a weapon that went off target, when the dust settles they call all the shots. Intact government, intact industrial plant, nukes and the ability to produce more and at least some delivery systems. In short order South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan will be dancing to their tune or they will see mushrooms - to the extent that these folks have not been damaged (only US bases hit) their industrial output is at the beck and call of China. If the US nuclear umbrella is no longer covering these folks they are screwed...yes in the 80s all 3 countries could make nukes given the time to do so, but they won't get the time.

The reason the Russians would are even more obvious, the Chinese are next door and "claim" lots of Siberia...
 
The USA will hit Chinese nuclear facilities and locations of any missiles or nuclear capable aircraft they have. Maybe a hit on known command and control bunkers. In this scenario anybody left over with nuclear toys and delivery systems, and intact central control of civil and military capabilities is the big dog. If the only effects on China of this are some fallout and perhaps a weapon that went off target, when the dust settles they call all the shots. Intact government, intact industrial plant, nukes and the ability to produce more and at least some delivery systems. In short order South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan will be dancing to their tune or they will see mushrooms - to the extent that these folks have not been damaged (only US bases hit) their industrial output is at the beck and call of China. If the US nuclear umbrella is no longer covering these folks they are screwed...yes in the 80s all 3 countries could make nukes given the time to do so, but they won't get the time.

The reason the Russians would are even more obvious, the Chinese are next door and "claim" lots of Siberia...
Perhaps the U.S. might take a wait and see attitude and see if the Soviets attacked China first ? My understand is that in the latter stages of the Cold War the U.S. had a certain ability to detect where nuclear detonations had occurred so it doesn't seem entirely impossible to me that U.S. might take a wait and see attitude ?

If the U.S. doesn't actually attack China then conceivably they might get some degree of co operation from what ever is left of China ?
 

RousseauX

Donor
The USA will hit Chinese nuclear facilities and locations of any missiles or nuclear capable aircraft they have. Maybe a hit on known command and control bunkers. In this scenario anybody left over with nuclear toys and delivery systems, and intact central control of civil and military capabilities is the big dog. If the only effects on China of this are some fallout and perhaps a weapon that went off target, when the dust settles they call all the shots. Intact government, intact industrial plant, nukes and the ability to produce more and at least some delivery systems. In short order South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan will be dancing to their tune or they will see mushrooms - to the extent that these folks have not been damaged (only US bases hit) their industrial output is at the beck and call of China. If the US nuclear umbrella is no longer covering these folks they are screwed...yes in the 80s all 3 countries could make nukes given the time to do so, but they won't get the time.

The reason the Russians would are even more obvious, the Chinese are next door and "claim" lots of Siberia...
Why? China was a US ally vs the USSR in the 1980s
 

RousseauX

Donor
The US planned to nuke China in the event of a nuclear war with the USSR in the 1950s so I don’t think their policy would change especially after China had nuclear missiles of their own.
In the 1950s China was a Soviet ally, in the 1980s they were an American ally, so the plans definitely changed
 
Britain is a US ally, a nuclear power, a known colonizing nation, and London was maybe the European symbol of capitalism for much of the last two centuries. Lots of US intelligence/C3I/other useful sites. I doubt five million Britons survive, *maybe* half that after the starvation/plagues/climate changes over the next three years, and of those the bulk will be in Cornwall, Wales, and Scotland north of the old Antonine Wall. Northern Ireland might do well initially but that won't last as Ireland will probably annex or merge with them for the sake of food and survival.

China is a different story with potentially variable outcomes but it will be hit, probably more by the USSR than the US. I doubt the country survives intact afterwards just because of the number of competing interests and ethnicities but viable nations are possible, especially in the southern and western areas (thinking Yellow River Basin).
 
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