How bad was Mussolini?
- Thread starter Jimbo808
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As an Italian-American I loathe Mussolini for taking Italy down a dark path of imperialism and authoritarianism that linked the word "Italian" with "fascism" for a generation.
He was not as bad and Hitler or Stalin (which would be almost impossible) but I do not care because he still engaged in war crimes, crimes against humanity, and crimes against Italy all while acting as Hitler's lapdog.
He was not as bad and Hitler or Stalin (which would be almost impossible) but I do not care because he still engaged in war crimes, crimes against humanity, and crimes against Italy all while acting as Hitler's lapdog.
I think he was also not (quite) as bloodthirsty. Note I am not saying he wasn't bloodthirsty just not as much as Hitler or Stalin. That is a very low bar.
That's probably how I'd rank him too.
He's one of those people - like Bismarck and Napoleon - I keep meaning to read a biography of...
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Several French and british presidents caused similar casualties during their "colonial pacifications." And they are never mentioned by anyone.( And they also invaded various African empires and civilizations) and nobody usually names them.
In that case, I agree. His might not be as competent as the other dictators but that doesn't make him any less evil
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Keep going! Mussolini is another complex character.
and no: he didn't make the trains run on time. They were still a bit 'Italian' during his time.
Mussolini in the early years was not tied to Hitler. After all, he was not too keen on Anschluss; hence Hitler had to cool it a bit.
Munich was probably his last chance of independent policy.
Mussolini was in many ways a product of Italian 'Balkan' policy. And those things started thousands of years before Mussolini (and will probably carry on for another thousand years).
Atrocities? aplenty, but as mentioned, not limited to Italy.
Was his 'rather live like a lion for one day than living as a sheep for a thousand years' a call that could resonate in the Italian population at large? That was the problem. It didn't really. Most Italians recognised that their industrial base could not sustain a war. And they really didn't want another war.
PS: Mussolini did one thing: he put all suspected of being Mafia in jail (no trial!). The US released them all because: if Mussolini put you in jail you must be OK ; hence the rise of the Mafia in US.
A complex character.
and no: he didn't make the trains run on time. They were still a bit 'Italian' during his time.
Mussolini in the early years was not tied to Hitler. After all, he was not too keen on Anschluss; hence Hitler had to cool it a bit.
Munich was probably his last chance of independent policy.
Mussolini was in many ways a product of Italian 'Balkan' policy. And those things started thousands of years before Mussolini (and will probably carry on for another thousand years).
Atrocities? aplenty, but as mentioned, not limited to Italy.
Was his 'rather live like a lion for one day than living as a sheep for a thousand years' a call that could resonate in the Italian population at large? That was the problem. It didn't really. Most Italians recognised that their industrial base could not sustain a war. And they really didn't want another war.
PS: Mussolini did one thing: he put all suspected of being Mafia in jail (no trial!). The US released them all because: if Mussolini put you in jail you must be OK ; hence the rise of the Mafia in US.
A complex character.
Limited goals in line with traditional European Imperialism and colonial attitudes.
Wanted an Empire and control over resources in colonies. Viewed colonial peoples as inferiors to be exploited but not exterminated as sub-humans. Even his attitude to the South Slavs mirrored British attitudes to Ireland or India, not those of Hitler to Poles or Russians.
Edited for typo
So it was okay for Mussolini? Does this mean that he was a nice guy? That murdering lots of people don't count?
So it was okay for the British or the French? For America?
And by the way, I don't think the British have Presidents.
Shouldn't we be honest about these things? Maybe we shouldn't give monstrous acts a pass, ever.
Body count, ambition, competence, skill...
Doesn't mean he wasn't a dick, though.
It was a necessary evil for the Allies to cooperate with the Maria in World War 2. Although it restablished a criminal organization, the vital intelligence fron this cooperation saved thousands of lives
It is with strange irony for a man who promoted traditionalism and banned adultery, Mussolini lived a lifestyle that even a modern Hollywood star would have their eyes popped wide openNot just that, but Mussolini himself even had a Jewish mistress.
Margherita Sarfatti - Wikipedia
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He fought the Mafia until he decided he didn't feel like doing that anymore.
No, really! Cesare Mori, "the Iron Prefect" who had been entrusted with the complete eradication of the organization from the island, was recalled all of a sudden to Rome before finishing the job. Mussolini thought that in its weakened state the Mafia could become a useful tool for the National Fascist Party to quash any sedition against his rule in Sicily, since it was entrenched in every corner of the region and could therefore act as an auxiliary force to the local Blackshirts, who after all couldn't be everywhere.
Of course, the Mafia being the Mafia, we all know how they repaid the Duce's act of clemency once the war reached 1943.
Mussolini was a very evil man, but evil in historically recognizable ways, especially colonial governors or depraved dukes. Totally callous towards human life and despicable bastards.
Mao and Stalin epitomized ideological totalitarianism and the power at the end of a gun. They were monstrosities but still not in the same realm as Hitler. Even their mass killings like the Holodomor were more side effects of brutally repressive policies and foolish ideas than intentionally self-destructive to their very state in order to kill as many people in the targeted groups before time runs out.
Hitler’s regime (plus I’d throw Pol Pot as a halfway house between Mao and Hitler) is uniquely special for perpetuating and escalating the holocaust while they were losing WWII badly and all of that machinery could have gone into the war effort.
Add in Hitler’s burn it down orders, and you have Jim Jones running a country.
None of that makes Mussolini a nice guy or not despicably evil.
Mao and Stalin epitomized ideological totalitarianism and the power at the end of a gun. They were monstrosities but still not in the same realm as Hitler. Even their mass killings like the Holodomor were more side effects of brutally repressive policies and foolish ideas than intentionally self-destructive to their very state in order to kill as many people in the targeted groups before time runs out.
Hitler’s regime (plus I’d throw Pol Pot as a halfway house between Mao and Hitler) is uniquely special for perpetuating and escalating the holocaust while they were losing WWII badly and all of that machinery could have gone into the war effort.
Add in Hitler’s burn it down orders, and you have Jim Jones running a country.
None of that makes Mussolini a nice guy or not despicably evil.
Pol Pot was Hitler without the reach. Pol Pot killed 1 in 4 Cambodians ! Hitler killed more people in large part because there are a lot more people in almost all of Europe than Cambodia.