House of Mughal becomes Hindu before invading India, how far back would one need to go?

VVD0D95

Banned
Something I've been mulling over. I've been fascinated by the Mughals for years, and have always wondered if there was a way to get them to become Hindu. Obviously converting is probably out of the cards, but is there a way to get the dynasty to become Hindu before they take India? Would it require Timur to become Hindu or a POD further back? And what consequences would there be if the Mughals and their ancestors were Hindu?

@Madhukar_Shah @LostInNewDelhi @Shahrasayr @Brahman
 

Brahman

Mughals were Muslim Turko-Mongols who spoke Persian and were reliant of Muslim Nobles of Iranian, Turkish and Pashtun decent to rule. Hinduism was also not really a religion that is high on converts, especially on this time when Caste was much more important source of legitimacy.

They never could have converted to Hinduism as it would lead to the king who converted dethroned or even executed and the dynasty collapsing
 

VVD0D95

Banned
Brahman said:
Mughals were Muslim Turko-Mongols who spoke Persian and were reliant of Muslim Nobles of Iranian, Turkish and Pashtun decent to rule. Hinduism was also not really a religion that is high on converts, especially on this time when Caste was much more important source of legitimacy.

They never could have converted to Hinduism as it would lead to the king who converted dethroned or even executed and the dynasty collapsing
Click to expand...

I see
 

Madhukar_Shah

Forget Timur, you would probably need a pod where central asia doesnt islamise in the first place, and no other exclusive religion takes Islam's place- perhaps the Chagataids go Buddhist and the region is deislamised. Only then could you get a situation where "Hindu" gods are an option that people have in their spiritual lives in central asia. Also outside of abrahamic religions, conversion isn't the best term- there is nothing like the idea of renouncing everything you believed and were before the conversion, nothing like the almost rebirth that a conversion experience implies.

Instead think more- a particular god/ritual takes precedence in your daily ritual life which is a step in your journey. Deciding to put more emphasis on this god or ritual was not some dramatic break with your past life, but more akin to how someone might get into yoga- you learn about it, your friends might get pretty into it so it becomes a social thing too. That's the model through which Islam spread in India to say nothing of how Indic religions had been interacting. In that sense, of religious practices and beliefs as "knowledge" that you learn without it needing to displace everything you learnt before, Mughal rulers otl did believe in for example "Hindu" astrology and the superhuman powers of "Hindu" saints.
 

Lalli

You wouldneed POD really far back before Timur and even before Genghis Khan. Hinduism has already centuries if not millenia been religion where to can't convert, at least not easily.

Not sure if even marrying of some Hindu princess would helpå them.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
Madhukar_Shah said:
Forget Timur, you would probably need a pod where central asia doesnt islamise in the first place, and no other exclusive religion takes Islam's place- perhaps the Chagataids go Buddhist and the region is deislamised. Only then could you get a situation where "Hindu" gods are an option that people have in their spiritual lives in central asia. Also outside of abrahamic religions, conversion isn't the best term- there is nothing like the idea of renouncing everything you believed and were before the conversion, nothing like the almost rebirth that a conversion experience implies.

Instead think more- a particular god/ritual takes precedence in your daily ritual life which is a step in your journey. Deciding to put more emphasis on this god or ritual was not some dramatic break with your past life, but more akin to how someone might get into yoga- you learn about it, your friends might get pretty into it so it becomes a social thing too. That's the model through which Islam spread in India to say nothing of how Indic religions had been interacting. In that sense, of religious practices and beliefs as "knowledge" that you learn without it needing to displace everything you learnt before, Mughal rulers otl did believe in for example "Hindu" astrology and the superhuman powers of "Hindu" saints.
Click to expand...
Lalli said:
You wouldneed POD really far back before Timur and even before Genghis Khan. Hinduism has already centuries if not millenia been religion where to can't convert, at least not easily.

Not sure if even marrying of some Hindu princess would helpå them.
Click to expand...
Ahhh I see Intetesting
 

Vabasion

No way for it to happen. Some kind of religious merger like they attempted to do is more likely, maybe even Sikhism but no way for Hinduism to be it especially before conquest when all they had were Muslim subjects
 

Sardar

Yea, definitely on the far end of the probability spectrum. Timur was a Persianized Turkic Muslim, and without Islam, you butterfly everything post 600 CE.
 

NotAMyth

Vabasion said:
No way for it to happen. Some kind of religious merger like they attempted to do is more likely, maybe even Sikhism but no way for Hinduism to be it especially before conquest when all they had were Muslim subjects
Click to expand...
Maybe a super successful Din-i-Ilahi, which grows from an imperial cult to a syncretized version of Islam, sort of a monotheistic Hinduism. I think Dara Shikoh tried to revive it but failed, because of, well, dying.
 

Lalli

NotAMyth said:
Maybe a super successful Din-i-Ilahi, which grows from an imperial cult to a syncretized version of Islam, sort of a monotheistic Hinduism. I think Dara Shikoh tried to revive it but failed, because of, well, dying.
Click to expand...

Isn't SIkhims syncretic form of Islam and Hinduism? Generally it is hard to syncretise clearly dogmated monotheistic religion and relatively flexible polytheistic faith. Such religion might be bit difficult to sell for people. And Muslims are not supposed to convert to othe rrleigions..
 

souvikkundu25140017

By the 1330s, three of the four major khanates of the Mongol Empire had become Muslim. These were the Jochi's Ulus, Hulagu's Ulus and Chagatai's Ulus. Umar Shaikh Mirza 2 first wife and chief consort was Qutlugh Nigar Khanum, a princess of the Chagatai Khanate and daughter of Yunus Khan of Moghulistan. Maybe Yunus Khan never converted to Islam and may even possess nominal loyalty towards Kublai who later converted to Buddhism. Chagatai Group was a polyglot Army so it is not impossible have different faith within it. Later Babur born from Qutlugh Nigar Khanum. He was always very proud of his lineage. Yunus Khan was a direct male-line descendant of Genghis Khan, through his son Chagatai Khan. So maybe he followed faith his mother. Tibet also ideal in this case to get support and supply of Missionaries.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
souvikkundu25140017 said:
By the 1330s, three of the four major khanates of the Mongol Empire had become Muslim. These were the Jochi's Ulus, Hulagu's Ulus and Chagatai's Ulus. Umar Shaikh Mirza 2 first wife and chief consort was Qutlugh Nigar Khanum, a princess of the Chagatai Khanate and daughter of Yunus Khan of Moghulistan. Maybe Yunus Khan never converted to Islam and may even possess nominal loyalty towards Kublai who later converted to Buddhism. Chagatai Group was a polyglot Army so it is not impossible have different faith within it. Later Babur born from Qutlugh Nigar Khanum. He was always very proud of his lineage. Yunus Khan was a direct male-line descendant of Genghis Khan, through his son Chagatai Khan. So maybe he followed faith his mother. Tibet also ideal in this case to get support and supply of Missionaries.
Click to expand...
I like that. What consequences could this have if the Mughals still invade as a Buddhist force?
 

souvikkundu25140017

Not much it will able to deal with Low nobility. They can replace indian Islamic Islamic nobles with his loyal retainers. With Tibet he can get lots of missionaries and provide them access to Buddhist sites. By that time Buddha considered a avatar to getting Hindus to accept Buddha as part of parthenon is easier. Plus many of Tibetan lay people Practice something similar to Pureland buddhism. So using that to convert lay people not hard. Most issue you will face from four center of Vedanta. But Tibet does not lack educated philosophies. Plus they will have royal patronage. In case of buddhism Mughal will have legitimacy due to having most of holy site under their control and they do not have anybody to impose theological supremacy like caliphs of islam.

Shankar was considered Cypto Buddhist so using that as material to discredit him and his philosophy.
 

kholieken

Banned
VVD0D95 said:
I like that. What consequences could this have if the Mughals still invade as a Buddhist force?
Click to expand...
Constant danger of invasion from NW ? More hostile relations between Islamic Golden Horde versus Buddhist Mongol who ruling lot of Muslims ? More esoteric religious debate in India, difference between Shaivaism, Vishnuvite, and Tantric Buddhism is much more subtle than with monotheistic Muslims.
 

souvikkundu25140017

Better relation with Yuan china and Tibet. Vajrayana will be main buddhism with Tibet being main missionary force. Tibet assimilated vast number of Gods in buddhism and same approach can be taken here. Buddha considered An Avatar after all.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top