House of Howard

A random thought/ query I had was, how might one place the House of Howard onto the English and later British throne? With a POD starting in 1485, how might one achieve such a thing?
 
ANy thoughts for this? Perhaps a marriage between a Howard, and a daughter of Edward IV, or perhaps between a Howard and a daughter of Henry VII?
 
ANy thoughts for this? Perhaps a marriage between a Howard, and a daughter of Edward IV, or perhaps between a Howard and a daughter of Henry VII?

Anne of York married Lord Surrey, but besides a son who died before his mom, her other 3/4kids died in infancy. Her husband later remarried to Elizabeth Stafford, and had four kids (including Mary Howard, Duchess of Richmond and Somerset).

As to the how, shouldn't be TOO difficult. Margaret Douglas, OTL Css of Lennox was in love with a Howard boy (Thomas or Charles). Simply have her marry him, and her son marries either one of his royal cousins in Scotland or in England
 
Anne of York married Lord Surrey, but besides a son who died before his mom, her other 3/4kids died in infancy. Her husband later remarried to Elizabeth Stafford, and had four kids (including Mary Howard, Duchess of Richmond and Somerset).

As to the how, shouldn't be TOO difficult. Margaret Douglas, OTL Css of Lennox was in love with a Howard boy (Thomas or Charles). Simply have her marry him, and her son marries either one of his royal cousins in Scotland or in England

Alright interesting, that could be quite interesting. Might this take place around the 1530s?
 
In regards to Anne of York, and Howard, could they have surviving issue who might become the focus of a Catholic plot against Henry VIII during the reformation?
 
How does this sound as a possible Royal House of Howard:

Thomas Howard, Duke of York (b. 1473: d.1543) m Anne of York (b. 1475: d. 1511.)

Issue: Thomas I Howard (b. 1496: d. 1556)

I'm thinking either THomas succeeds after overthrowing Henry VIII during a war over religion, or perhaps in something drawn to insight war over some slight or the other. Perhaps in the 1530s, or perhaps in the 1510s, over a falling of some sort?
 
How does this sound as a possible Royal House of Howard:

Thomas Howard, Duke of York (b. 1473: d.1543) m Anne of York (b. 1475: d. 1511.)

Issue: Thomas I Howard (b. 1496: d. 1556)

I'm thinking either THomas succeeds after overthrowing Henry VIII during a war over religion, or perhaps in something drawn to insight war over some slight or the other. Perhaps in the 1530s, or perhaps in the 1510s, over a falling of some sort?

For the whole overthrowing Henry on the grounds of religion you'd need to butterfly/kill off Mary, otherwise she'll be the Catholic candidate. Or alternatively a Howard with royal blood could marry Mary and seize the throne in her name?

Not sure any revolt against Henry in the 1510s would be successful.

There was obviously the whole thing with the 4th Duke of Norfolk and Mary Queen of Scots IOTL in the late 1560s. Something could come of that, though I suppose any sons Mary has by Norfolk would theoretically be behind James VI in the succession?

Maybe a situation in which Elizabeth dies of smallpox in 1562, Mary Queen of Scots marries a Howard to assist her in gaining the English throne.
 
Alright that could be quite interesting. Either scenario with the Marys could work, is it possible that a son of THomas Howard, son of Anne of York could marry Mary in say around the 1530s, then when Henry VIII dies they try to claim the throne then?

Also Mary Queen of Scots would be quite interesting, would there be a succession crisis following Elizabeth's death in 1562 then do you think, or merely xenophobia at play?
 
Well loyal to Richard III - Surrey as he then was was imprisoned for around three years - but then proved his loyalty and military capabilities resulting in getting his earldom of Surrey back and Anne of York as a wife for his son - but not much in the way of lands - he eventually got more after his success at Flodden - so only then were the Howard's really back on the up.
Margaret Douglas had an affair with Charles Howard (brother of Queen Catherine Howard) in 1540 which caused a scandal but Charles is a pretty low branch of the Howard's and nephew of the 3rd Duke.
The Howard's were not that pro-Catholic initially - they were major recipients of monastic lands in the 30s and 40s - though they certainly were conservative in religion.
Effectively you could argue they did occupy the throne in part from 1558 to 1603 (given Elizabeth I had a Howard grandmother).
Best option is marriage rather than rebellion (no rebellion against any of the Tudor monarch's worked largely because all of them had a pretty firm grip) - so option one - Anne of York and Surrey have a surviving son born sometime between 1496 and 1511 who marries his cousin Mary Tudor after she is widowed in France - the couple are in disgrace but have issue - who are named heirs under Henry's will ahead of his sister Margaret - The King's children all die without issue and are succeeded by the descendants of Mary Queen Dowager of France, Duchess of Norfolk and Countess of Surrey.
Option two - as above but the 14 year old Lady Elizabeth daughter of the King marries her cousin Henry Howard Earl of Surrey (b1526) in the final year of her father's reign due to the rising influence of the Howard family - Elizabeth succeeds as in OTL.
Option Three - No issue by Anne of York and as in OTL - however in 1546/7 to the King's fury Henry Howard Earl of Surrey marries without Royal Consent the Lady Mary eldest daughter of the King - Henry is promptly arrested and executed and the whole Howard clan is imprisoned - the Lady Mary is placed under house arrest and soon discovers she is with child - her life and the validity of her marriage is only saved by the death of her father and she gives birth to a posthumous son in late 1547 - the boy named Henry for his father and grandfather and is initially brought up by his devoutly Catholic mother - but the council in 1550 order the boy placed in other's custody and raised in the reformed religion.
In 1553 Edward fearing a Catholic succession creates his device for the succession removing his sister Mary from the succession - the new succession would be male only - the Lord Henry Howard, the heires male of the Lady Elizabeth etc" - Dudley manages to get the device through Parliament over the objections of the Lady Mary and Henry Howard succeeds as King Henry IX - his guardianship is nominally under the control of the council but his biggest influence is his aunt Elizabeth particularly after the death of his mother in 1558.
 
All three are interesting scenarios.

Say Thomas Howard, the son of Surrey and Anne of York, survives and does marry Mary Tudor-Dowager Queen of France-, what are the chances that their son could marry Mary Tudor the younger, daughter of Henry VIII?
 
Here is a weird idea, what if Henry FitzRoy, 1st Duke of Richmond and Somerset, (the illegitimate son of King Henry VIII of England and his mistress, Elizabeth Blount) who himself is married to Lady Mary Howard, second daughter of Thomas Howard, 3rd Duke of Norfolk, have a son before Henry dies in 1536 aged 17 or allow him to live long enough to be placed into the Second Succession Act, permitted King Henry VIII to designate his successor, whether legitimate or not. So we could see the succession go along the lines of:
- Prince Edward of Wales
- Howard Fitzroy, 2nd Duke of Richmond and Somerset
- Lady Mary Tudor
- Lady Elizabeth Tudor

Howard Fitzroy could marry his cousin, Katherine Howard, daughter of Henry Howard, Earl of Surrey and when he accends the throne on the death of his half uncle, King Edward VI, he uses a joint house name of Tudor-Howard as his regal house, rather than a bastard surname.
 
All three are interesting scenarios.

Say Thomas Howard, the son of Surrey and Anne of York, survives and does marry Mary Tudor-Dowager Queen of France-, what are the chances that their son could marry Mary Tudor the younger, daughter of Henry VIII?

Ages might be wrong I suspect especially if Mary Tudor the elder still marries France first.
 
Here is a weird idea, what if Henry FitzRoy, 1st Duke of Richmond and Somerset, (the illegitimate son of King Henry VIII of England and his mistress, Elizabeth Blount) who himself is married to Lady Mary Howard, second daughter of Thomas Howard, 3rd Duke of Norfolk, have a son before Henry dies in 1536 aged 17 or allow him to live long enough to be placed into the Second Succession Act, permitted King Henry VIII to designate his successor, whether legitimate or not. So we could see the succession go along the lines of:
- Prince Edward of Wales
- Howard Fitzroy, 2nd Duke of Richmond and Somerset
- Lady Mary Tudor
- Lady Elizabeth Tudor

Howard Fitzroy could marry his cousin, Katherine Howard, daughter of Henry Howard, Earl of Surrey and when he accends the throne on the death of his half uncle, King Edward VI, he uses a joint house name of Tudor-Howard as his regal house, rather than a bastard surname.

Oh very interesting, that could well lead to some interesting consequences
 
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