Holy-Roman Pan Nationalism

What is the posability of a timeline where Napoleon never takes power resulting in France going through many more regime changes without any of his reforms. Some of the outlier regions of France break off from the nation or are occupied.

Because of napoleons death Prussia never gets all the land it won IOTL, liberalism isn’t seen as evil and the Holy Roman Empire stays around as a title only. Because of this when pan nationalism comes around alongside calls for liberal reforms it’s not German pan-nationalism it is instead a call for a centralized Holy Roman Empire.

This would be more possible then our timeline as Prussia does have less influence then IOTL and would hav not had the military experience. If any German was going to rule it would likely be a von Hapsburg

The only thing I would wonder is if it would be elected or become hereditarily
 
What is the posability of a timeline where Napoleon never takes power resulting in France going through many more regime changes without any of his reforms. Some of the outlier regions of France break off from the nation or are occupied.

Because of napoleons death Prussia never gets all the land it won IOTL, liberalism isn’t seen as evil and the Holy Roman Empire stays around as a title only. Because of this when pan nationalism comes around alongside calls for liberal reforms it’s not German pan-nationalism it is instead a call for a centralized Holy Roman Empire.

This would be more possible then our timeline as Prussia does have less influence then IOTL and would hav not had the military experience. If any German was going to rule it would likely be a von Hapsburg

The only thing I would wonder is if it would be elected or become hereditarily

Any Holy Roman Nationalism would simply be German Nationalism, especially as most of the Non-German parts were shed by the 18th century. The only non-German places in the HRE were Southern Netherlands and Bohemia, and they would be a hopeless minority to a overwhelming German presence.

Remember that in 1512, even when Northern Italy and other non-German parts were still part of the empire, the formal name of the Empire was changed to the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation. The Germans certainly claimed the empire as its own, and were claiming it as an empire of the German Nation.
 
Any Holy Roman Nationalism would simply be German Nationalism, especially as most of the Non-German parts were shed by the 18th century. The only non-German places in the HRE were Southern Netherlands and Bohemia, and they would be a hopeless minority to a overwhelming German presence.

Remember that in 1512, even when Northern Italy and other non-German parts were still part of the empire, the formal name of the Empire was changed to the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation. The Germans certainly claimed the empire as its own, and were claiming it as an empire of the German Nation.
The HREGN wasn't used that often, even if used in a lot of official documents. They dropped it long ago. Well, at least they didn't use it that often. And of course I recall seeing old maps and such where the HRE would simply be called The Empire. Anyways, nations and states as terms have evolved a lot from back then. Going far back enough we also have cleanings of the Swiss, Dutch, and Flemish from the Deutsch. Without Napoleon helping reform things there might be less revolutionaries.

Now then, what period in specific will Napoleon not be gaining power? Maybe he is censured for abandoning his army in Syria, with the French public somehow being made aware of it so they don't think he is some undefeated commander? might be he doesn't get to the Trimuverate thing. I suspect there will be some generals taking charge though, given the country is on a constant war footing. Are we going to have the French here keeping at supporting Republics, as well as swallowing up everything on the western bank of the Rhine? Also, was it Napoleon or some other generals who looted Switzerland? Out of all the republics in Europe, I think that was one of the least oligarchic. Also reminds me that Napoleon kept vetoing ever proposed President of the Italian Republic until they gave him the job.

Speaking of Germans and Italians, you guys think national and regional languages will go differently? Maybe the massive amount of Germanic speakers and th epeople of Piedmont mean Parisian French faces more challenges in forces itself everywhere. Italian as a national language might not base itself on Tuscan here. Depending on if the French ally with any specific German states, we also might see their German diverging or staying separate, even though apparently German in Germany is already pretty divergent still. Wish I had that excellent historical atlas Cambridge had as a part of a large historical set. I'll start looking up to see when the mediatizations started up.
 
Such a movement is far more likely to be a conservative "AstroTurf", top-down move by the Imperial nobility in an effort to co-opt German nationalism to maintain/expand their corporate Privileges/ "German Freedoms" relative to efforts by Austria to transform Germany into a "Greater Habsburg Empire" and the rising power of the liberal academic-industrialist beuracratic class. It's certainly possible to reform the Imperial Reichstag in such a way as to make the HRE into a kind of "noble republic" with a strong legislature and weak executive.
 
Part of the issue will lie in the fact that a lot of nationalists in Germany won't want to be dominated by Austria--without a strong Prussia there is no other state in the Empire that can balance out Austria's economic might when the crown lands outside the Empire are factored in--and thus many will demand that the Hapsburgs either forsake their lands outside of Austria and Bohemia or transfer them to a different branch of the family, which they almost certainly won't do. Thus there is no real state in the Empire willing and able to lead from the top the way Prussia could OTL; the liberals advocating for national unification will likely be less numerous but more committed than IOTL as nationalism spreads more slowly but is picked up by true believers as time passes. The great powers aren't really going to be interested in letting the minor principalities form a federation not dominated by any member as it fundamentally upsets the balance agreed to during and after the wars with France, the most I could see happening is them exerting their powers more frequently in the Imperial Diet and managing to elect one of their own Emperor but I find even this unlikely as I doubt the electors could agree on anyone.
 
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