Holy Roman Empire is usually seen as an imposter to the Roman Empire (Byzantines being the true heir). What would it take for the HRE to be seen as a worthy successor state to the Roman Empire?
Maybe the keeping a long time grip of the 1st Rome and maybe ERE Dying early(take your pick) might help?Holy Roman Empire is usually seen as an imposter to the Roman Empire (Byzantines being the true heir). What would it take for the HRE to be seen as a worthy successor state to the Roman Empire?
Wait. There was another thread like this? Maybe you can direct me to it?oh here we go again
Wait. There was another thread like this? Maybe you can direct me to it?
Avoid Otto's invite and conquest of Italy. The Kings of Italy will then retain often being crowned Emperor. Then after a few centuries when everyone is clear it's a Roman Empire expand their holdings.Holy Roman Empire is usually seen as an imposter to the Roman Empire (Byzantines being the true heir). What would it take for the HRE to be seen as a worthy successor state to the Roman Empire?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Constantinople_(674–678) This one? if this is sucessful..is game over for the ERE, seriosly, not even a rump State, the Ummayad would moved directly to Constantinople and start controlling the medditeranean...this might even affect toulrs as might not happen or would be more fierceWith a Medieval POD, how about we have Byzantium collapse much earlier (one of the Arab sieges come to mind), leaving them as a rump state, while the Franks defeat the Arabs as in OTL and Charlemagne gets crowned after offing the Lombards. This leaves them as the "Roman sucessor" by default, especially as the Caliphate consolidates in Anatolia. This also gives some ideas because we'll see the Roman legitimacy associated to Catholic Christianity.
Somehow having the Kings of France become Holy Roman Emperors would probably help, either instead of Otto or else getting control afterwards somehow. Since France was both part of the former Roman Empire and spoke a language descended from Latin, I think they'd have an easier time portraying themselves as the true heirs of Rome than the barbarian Germans.
For a more France centered HRE you would likely have to go back to Charles the fat and avoiding the Fragmentation of the Kingdom of West Francia. This was what saw the last Carolingian King ruling with very little power while the Capetians counts of Paris based in the Isle de France held effective power allowing them to depose the Carolingians much like how the Carolingians deposed the Merovingians 200 years earlier. I'd say that if France had a strong King he could likely take Lotharingia while reimposing his control in Italy allowing him to take the Imperial title while East Francia develops as a separate Kingdom. Though a French centered HRE would be more "Roman" in character as the Gallo-Roman population the Franks had ruled over were assimilating their Germanic Rulers. This was how the Germanic Frankish tongue became French (or at least several archaic dialects of what we know as modern French) based on the Gallo-Roman dialect of Vulgar Latin.France would also find it far easier to impose control over Rome. It's far easier to ship an army from Marseilles than to have one cross the Alps.
An a truly Italian and "Roman" centered HRE means that it actually has the best claim here of being the continuation of the Western Empire here. Italy also was the most urbanized and richest region in Western Europe until after the Renaissance. A unified Medieval Italy would be a major power in Europe and the Atlantic because of its wealth. Though it has to first rebuild its dilapidated infrastructure and contend with the Saracens in the South. I could see the "Romans" here working to restore old Roman institutions if they had a capable leader. There was a timeline about this as well by @Carp called the Sons of the Harlot Empress that explores this concept with the Italian noble family of the Tusculani. I highly recommend checking this timeline out, as its very well written and and researched. Though it was a shame that it was abandoned (still a good a read though regardless).Avoid Otto's invite and conquest of Italy. The Kings of Italy will then retain often being crowned Emperor. Then after a few centuries when everyone is clear it's a Roman Empire expand their holdings.