Holy Roman Empire aproximatly 1718

Central Europe around 1718 after adifferent 17th century.

HRE 1718.GIF
 
Interesting. Both the Netherlands and the French have made gains which means no hostility between them as in OTL. Possibly a stronger, longer lasting Hapsburg pre-eminence only recently defeated? This might also explain why Prussian already has Silesia, along with W Prussia. Also I notice that there is no Swedish presence, other than possibly part of near Pomerania. Not sure if Hanover is also slightly larger than it was at the time.

Steve
 
Also I notice that there is no Swedish presence, other than possibly part of near Pomerania.

That's probably Swedish Pomerania, looking pretty much as it should. I'm not sure if they lost part of it to Prussia before or after 1718 in OTL.

It might be part of the ATL, but it's more likely that Switzerland having its OTL modern borders is an error on the mapmakers' behalf.

Besides part of the Spanish Netherlands, I see France got Lorraine as well. That must've been a tough nut to crack.

Is it just me or did the Dutch made gains in Germany itself? And the map doesn't clarify what form of government they have.

Does Bavaria control the Rhenish Palatinate or is the identical coloring just a fluke?
 
My theory of what has happened:
Stadholder William II (father of stadholder king William III) made a deal with France to split the southern Netherlands. The plans for this deal existed OTL, but it was never executed because the state of Holland (as in the province not the entire Netherlands) and the city of AMsterdam were against it. Another war would be bad for the profit of the rich merchants and they did not want to pay for an expensive army or navy. (That proved to be a mistake after the anglo-Dutch wars and the year of disaster).
OTL William II decided to attack Amsterdam, but he failed when his army got lost and not long after that attack he died. No other stadholder was apointed.
So the POD might have been that the attack succeeded and the stadholders became hte authority figures in the republic (which would have resembled a monarchy more closely than a republic). William and France decide to split the southern Netherlands, like in the map. The Netherlands doesn't disband the army and becomes a major power on land as well as on sea (although on sea they are a slightly weaker power, because of a slightly worse climate for merchants in this Netherlands) and annexes various neighbouring German states.
Because of the cooperation with France, France and the Netherlands aren't as hostile to each other as they were in OTL.
 
It might be part of the ATL, but it's more likely that Switzerland having its OTL modern borders is an error on the mapmakers' behalf.

Switzerland hasn't the modern day borders. They controll the Veltlin/Valtellina but not the Jura and Geneva is an exclave.

As both the Netherlands and Switzerland are independant some major war which has weakend the HRE must have occured . As the calvinist netherlands and the catholic france seem to have worked together it was probably not about religion itself (although religion certainly played it's role). The fact that prussia is much stronger than IOTL hints that the habsburg have some problem.
I would assume that in absence of the 30 years war some habsburgian tried to unify the HRE, and failed due to opposition from the smaller states and france. After the war Switzerland and the Netherlands broke away while the mostly protestand slesia joined prussia which gave them the power to seize parts of the decaying poland.
 
Switzerland hasn't the modern day borders. They controll the Veltlin/Valtellina but not the Jura and Geneva is an exclave.

They shouldn't control Geneva at all, it was an independent republic at that time. Valais, Grisons and Basel should be independent as well, Tarasp should be Austrian and Neuchatel should be Prussian. And that's just the differences I can notice without having to consult any source. Most people aren't aware of the fact that Switzerland lacked some key territories until the Congress of Vienna. Furthermore, Mulhouse (in southern Alsace) should be an associate of the Confederation rather than part of France.

Here's a map of the evolution of the Swiss Confederation from its formation to the 16th century, at which point the borders became largely stable:

Old_Swiss_Confederation.jpg
 
Switzerland with modern day borders? arrggggggg!


*explodes*

the Vaud, Geneva, and the Three leagues should be independent. Neuchatel should be either controlled by Prussia, or maybe in this AH, Saxony.
 
Swiss borders

Thanks for the update about the Swiss borders, interesting to know it.

I thought some thing as this;

Spanish Netherlands were devided by France and the Dutch republic.
Took half a decade or so to actualy conuer it. Making war was not a shock and awe, thing at that time.
William II lives longer and figth in the 50ties and 60ties several wars with the Bishop of Munster (as in OTL) but with more ambition resulting in the complete conquest of it, and a land trade with Brandenburg, for Cleve and Julich.
Amsterdam will have much less influence as in OTL, Antwerp will be prosperous again. A more setlement aproch in stead of a merciantil regards the overseas colonies maybe.
Most likeley there will be a Anglo-Dutch war earlier and more often. The main reason will be more personal than economical because Cromwell beheaded the Father inlaw of William II.
I wonder where Louis XIV will direct his energy to. The Spanish Netherlands are split up. The fronde is won, or will erupt again. Perhaps Savoye and Italy again or still ambition to bring the frontier of his kingdom to the Rhine, resulting in wars with the Netherlands.

More ideas, please
 
Most likeley there will be a Anglo-Dutch war earlier and more often. The main reason will be more personal than economical because Cromwell beheaded the Father inlaw of William II.
I wonder where Louis XIV will direct his energy to. The Spanish Netherlands are split up. The fronde is won, or will erupt again. Perhaps Savoye and Italy again or still ambition to bring the frontier of his kingdom to the Rhine, resulting in wars with the Netherlands.

How about a Franco-Dutch alliance against (republican) England?
 
I was vaguely aware that Geneva was independent, and that certain of the west cantons joined around the time of the failed campaign of Charles the Bold of Burgundy, but I had kind of figured the rest had joined by the 1400s. But medeval history has never been my specialty, especially where it pertains to certain small German principalities and the like.
 
How about a Franco-Dutch alliance against (republican) England?
That is a lso a plausible option. Didn't think about it.
But what will happen when Cromwell left the stage. Louis XIV will do every thing to put a Catholic on the English throne and if William II is still alive he will try to put a Protestant on the throne.
A potetial war of the English sucsesion or something like this?
 
What happened with Poland and Brandenburg here? And why is there Electorate of Brandenburg AND Kingdom of Prussia?
 
What happened with Poland and Brandenburg here? And why is there Electorate of Brandenburg AND Kingdom of Prussia?

It could be to show that they're different realms (like England and Scotland, Poland and Lithuania, the various Habsburg crowns). In any case, Brandenburg and Prussia were only united in around 1618. This might have been avoided in TTL, though I doubt Prussia could extend so much if not for the personal union.
 

Susano

Banned
It could be to show that they're different realms (like England and Scotland, Poland and Lithuania, the various Habsburg crowns). In any case, Brandenburg and Prussia were only united in around 1618. This might have been avoided in TTL, though I doubt Prussia could extend so much if not for the personal union.

Both are still Prussian Blue, though.

No, the reason is IMO that the Kingdom of Prussia and Electorte of Brandenburg still kept on existing IOTL. The King of Prussia was also Elector of Brandenburg (well, Margrave of Brandenburg and Electo of the HREGN, as the title officially goes), as well as also Duke of Pommerania, Duke of Silesia, Duke of Magdeburg, Prince of Halberstadt, Prince of Minden... etc etc etc. All those German realms were formed in fact by personal union - but in absolutism, where the monarch is the state personal unions are de facto real unions, hence de facto one state. Thats how the Prussian Realm worke,d and thats also how the Austrian Empire worked, also just, theoreticlaly, a personal union of Austria, Carinthia, Tyrol, Styria, Bohemia, Moravia, Hungary... etc etc etc.

And idneed on the map its shown like this, too. The map doesnt show the name of the personal-union-states, but the name of the single territories (if important), it seems.
 

Susano

Banned
I don't understand what you mean by this.

The to never, on some techncial level, merged into one superstate, but were (as sai,d purely technically) merely bound by personal union, as were about all parts of the Prussian realm - but that was the norm of the time, and as said, in absolutist monarchy personal uniona nd real union are de fatco the same anyways.
 
The to never, on some techncial level, merged into one superstate, but were (as sai,d purely technically) merely bound by personal union, as were about all parts of the Prussian realm - but that was the norm of the time, and as said, in absolutist monarchy personal uniona nd real union are de fatco the same anyways.

I never said they were. That's why I always refer to Brandenburg-Prussia (until 1701), Poland-Lithuania, Denmark-Norway, and so on. I'd also refer to England-Scotland, Austria-Bohemia-Hungary, and Hungary-Croatia, but that would just raise eyebrows.
 

Susano

Banned
I never said they were. That's why I always refer to Brandenburg-Prussia (until 1701), Poland-Lithuania, Denmark-Norway, and so on. I'd also refer to England-Scotland, Austria-Bohemia-Hungary, and Hungary-Croatia, but that would just raise eyebrows.
Eh, Brandenburg-Prussia would be correct fo rbetween 1618 and 1701, but afterwards the royal title just takes precedence. Such realmc onglomerates were usualyl called for the most senior title, and with good reason. Because, as said, it wouldnt just be Brandenburg-Prussia, it would be Brandenburg-Prussia-Pommerania-Magdeburg-Minden-Halberstadt-Cleve-Crossen-Mark-Ravensberg.
Eh, I think Ill stay with naming it Prussia - though one has to keep in mind that on apurely techncial level they all were just connected by personal union.
 
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