HMS Vindictive.

In ww1 the Frobisher class cruiser Vindictive (cant remember origional name) was completed as a carrier with seperate landing & flying of decks but like Furious was unsuccesful. She was later converted back into a cruiser. The Washington Treaty exempted existing carriers as experimental, and defined an aircraft carrier as as ship designed solely for operating aircraft and in excess of 10,000 tons. Vindictive already existed and was just under the weight limit. Had she been given a full conversion giving the RN a fast carrier not covered by the treaty would she have been worth keeping in that role? What role in the fleet whould she have best served? Scout for destroyers - light cruiser? Escort leader. support for fleet carriers, or something else? Assuming she wasn't reconverted in the run up to ww11 with the naval treaties expired would she have provided enough justification to conver the other Frobishers and if so what difference would their presance make to RN operations.
 
10,000 tons is pretty small for a WWII CV.

The USN Independence-class CVL's were more than that, and could operate all of 33 aircraft.

CVEs were typically in that weight class... but most of them could only achieve 20 knots with a strong tail-wind and operate about 30 aircraft.

She might be a useful ship, but she's not going to be a fleet carrier. ASW patrols, convoy escort, that sort of thing.
 
Could be handy in the med. High speed nightime dash form Alexandria or gib to ferry distance from Malta, quickly launch a dozen Hurricanes followed by another high speed dash back to less dangerous waters. Also having these smaller less valuable ships at start of the war could have saved Glorious and Couragious as there would have been no need for them to be where they were when they were lost.

Origionaly Vindictive had space for 12 with 2 small hangers. With 1 continuous hanger max 20 seems resonable 16 more likely, say 10 Swordfish & 6 Martlets. With a US style deck park 30 tops 20 - 25 more likely.

Would she justify converting her sister ships when London and Washington Treaties expired.
 
Would she justify converting her sister ships when London and Washington Treaties expired.

I'd say not. Escort carriers could do most of the things she could do, and don't involve taking precious warships offline.

Still, you might see one or two more converted; the US did build nine of the Independence-class, after all...
 
Four 20 year old ships with 6 single 7.5 inch guns when the rest of the fleet uses 6 or 8 inch guns in twin gun turrets.
 
Four 20 year old ships with 6 single 7.5 inch guns when the rest of the fleet uses 6 or 8 inch guns in twin gun turrets.

(Shrug) The US got useful service out of the Omaha-class, and they were massively inferior to the Brooklyns. For that matter, IIRC there was at least one proposal to convert some of the Omaha's to flat tops but they decided it wasn't a good use of resources.

As noted, even if it manifestly ISN'T the best use of resources in hindsight, the folks who make the decisions at the time might do it anyway.

Perhaps if the Brits loose a flat top or two (that survived IOTL) to wandering U-boats they'd scramble for more decks and decide to use a conversion that had been done before to save time.
 
Personally I'd say it may be worth converting these vessels as convoy escort and ASW craft. The would have the speed to be light fleet carriers in a pinch, and they would free up other carriers such as the Glorious class.

In either configuration these ships are of marginal utility come WWII, but they would probable be worth more strategically as trade protection carriers than obsolete heavy cruisers.
 
I think the problem is that for all the expense in converting a completed cruiser into a carrier is that they are more a 'marginal utility' as carrier than as cruiser.

The ships of the Frobisher class (also known as the Hawkins class in some sources) were demilitarized in 1937-1938 and their 7.5in guns removed. Effingham was rearmed with nine 6in guns in single mounts. Rearming the Hawkins and Frobisher were to be rebuilt in the same way but the outbreak of the war lead them to once again mounting the 7.5in guns.
 
Even the conservative estimate Deck park figures compare favourably with Hermes, Argus & Eagle, which could probide food for though in later carrier design
 
Here's a page from an Alternative Naval WW2 site in which Vindictive and some of the other Hawkins class cruisers were converted into carriers and remained in service. ;)

http://www.combinedfleet.com/furashita/melbou_f.htm

A lot of the ships there were designed by opium fiends. The picture is clearly of the Furious. The cruisers were not obsolete in 1922. If one wants to immediately discredit their arguement they should cite from Furashita.
 
If you look at photographs of Vindictive before she was converted back into a cruiser she did look very similar to Furious. The question I asked was had she been converted to a full deck carrier in the twenties would the experience gained with her have justified the conversion of her half sisters in the late 30s. Remove her superstructue, route the funnels to the starboard side on out riggers. Build small island and a full length hanger and you get a nice if small carrier. Reading last night I saw that the Japanese managed to cram 48 aircraft onto the similarly sized Ryujo.(Glad I didn't have to serve on her)

300px-HMS_Vindictive_carrier.jpg
HMS Vindictive as originally completed.

300px-HMS_Vindictive_carrier.jpg
 
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The great problem is timing. The British are in the process of rearmament and converting the Hawkins class cruisers into carrier in 1937 takes too much time and material that can be spent on newer construction. Also, there is no pressing need for escort carriers at the time. What is needed in 1939, and will take a short time to complete is cruisers.
 
As an aid to the discussion heres my idea of Vindictive after conversion to a full carrier, thou to be honest I think it would only have been done if the Navy had managed to keep the Royal Navy Air Service.

Vindictiveascarrier.jpg

Vindictiveascarrier.jpg
 
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